Driver Technology

[harpo_72]

And so the cycle continues

Watched all, not a massively positive debut, the weight rail will be back next year ... so I suppose skip this year. On a side note a lot seem to be going mildly draw biased, which is interesting.
Pick of the crop seems to be the callaway epic thingy max .. I thought Titleist had got back in the running so I would like to see a direct compare. Also is Mizuno due a release?

 

[Imurg]

Mizuno due this week I think....
I don't think any of the new ones are really that much different from the ones they're replacing.
Maybe the Callaway but not by much..
I think it's going to be a more of a fairway and hybrid year than drivers.

 

[harpo_72]

Mizuno due this week I think....
I don't think any of the new ones are really that much different from the ones they're replacing.
Maybe the Callaway but not by much..
I think it's going to be a more of a fairway and hybrid year than drivers.

Yeah the fairways are really open for improvement, hybrids are a strange old concept, do you want more distance or do you want a consistent distance to live at the top end of the bag. I am not sure directionally they would go, smaller more pleasing to look at with high forgiveness ? ( hollow headed irons are making this viable) I am still using my Adam’s vst speed hybrids from 2014 and cannot see myself changing as they fit in the bag

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Watched a review of the new Sim 2 with Peter Finch and he was pretty blunt about it

The Sim 2 gave him an extra yard , no extra accuracy and it would be a driver that most ams would struggle to control due to lack of spin

The Max was a bit better as was the D Type

Saw the same with the new Callaway one as well

It seems that the new drivers are more about giving the pros a bit more gain and then into the mass market for us but we won’t see much gain unless you have a model that is a couple of years old - prob a M1 or M3 for the Sim2 and maybe the Rogue for the new Epic

 

[KenL]

The Callaway ones (low spin versions at least) look higher spinning than the Mavrik SZ.

 

[harpo_72]

The Callaway ones (low spin versions at least) look higher spinning than the Mavrik SZ.

They must have a good idea who is buying them and how much is ego or will they ramp the loft down to up the ball speed

 

[Pin-seeker]

When Rick Shiels tested the sim 2 & the sim max 2 they gave nearly identical numbers.
What’s the point?

 

[Imurg]

It's a problem with having a one year product cycle.
Simply not enough time to make a meaningful difference in performance.
TM did a similar thing when they released the latest P790 iro s - virtually no different to the previous incarnation
It's almost a release they didn't have to do.
The SiM is great, it could have easily run for another year which would give TM time to make real advancements
This isn't just a criticism of TM as, to an extent, they're all at it.
But most other products run a 18/24 month cycle.
Maybe it's time TM went the same way.

 

[ScienceBoy]

It looks like we are nearing the levelling out point, maybe time for me to think of getting a new driver (2020 model at reduced price?) as I could never justify the cost for little gains.

For me it’s the lack of practice and golf that has been my limiting factor, even with improving off centre hits a poor swing will still result in a poor shot.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's a problem with having a one year product cycle.
Simply not enough time to make a meaningful difference in performance.
TM did a similar thing when they released the latest P790 iro s - virtually no different to the previous incarnation
It's almost a release they didn't have to do.
The SiM is great, it could have easily run for another year which would give TM time to make real advancements
This isn't just a criticism of TM as, to an extent, they're all at it.
But most other products run a 18/24 month cycle.
Maybe it's time TM went the same way.

Callaway and TM now at 12 monthly cycles - Callaway try and mask it a little by having two model with one being replaced each year - TM seem to now have gone to one model with different variants of that model

Ping and Titliest at 18 months - Cobra a bit of a mix

I think they are just find new tech and then get into a yearly release.

It’s also mainly for the pros really - those extra yards that a driver gains or dispersion etc is key for them but as Peter Finch showed in his review one TM is not suited for the average golfer , his gains where next to none from the SIM but the gains from a M1/3 would be easily seen

 

[Imurg]

Callaway and TM now at 12 monthly cycles - Callaway try and mask it a little by having two model with one being replaced each year - TM seem to now have gone to one model with different variants of that model

Ping and Titliest at 18 months - Cobra a bit of a mix

I think they are just find new tech and then get into a yearly release.

It’s also mainly for the pros really - those extra yards that a driver gains or dispersion etc is key for them but as Peter Finch showed in his review one TM is not suited for the average golfer , his gains where next to none from the SIM but the gains from a M1/3 would be easily seen

The obvious retort to that is why release it to us when it's not going to make a real difference?
Run the SiM for 2 years for the general public but put the changes into the Pro kit where a yard here and there counts.
Then, when SiM3 or whatever is next comes out there will be tangible gains to be had.
Replacing what is, arguably, the best driver of 2020 with a product that, on the face of things, doesn't provide much gain doesn't make sense..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The obvious retort to that is why release it to us when it's not going to make a real difference?
Run the SiM for 2 years for the general public but put the changes into the Pro kit where a yard here and there counts.
Then, when SiM3 or whatever is next comes out there will be tangible gains to be had.
Replacing what is, arguably, the best driver of 2020 with a product that, on the face of things, doesn't provide much gain doesn't make sense..

Because it will make a difference to people who have drivers that are 2/3 models behind - someone with a M1 or even older will see the difference if they upgrade . The person who wants a new driver every year not so much but there are prob more who have models a couple years old now. Most people appear to upgrade every 3/4 years for a driver - that means the Sim2 or the Epic Speed will be a big upgrade for those people.

 

[Imurg]

Because it will make a difference to people who have drivers that are 2/3 models behind - someone with a M1 or even older will see the difference if they upgrade . The person who wants a new driver every year not so much but there are prob more who have models a couple years old now. Most people appear to upgrade every 3/4 years for a driver - that means the Sim2 or the Epic Speed will be a big upgrade for those people.

As would the SiM
If the SiM2 gives no real performance increases over SiM then upgrading from M1/2/3 etc to SiM negates the need for SiM2 at the moment.
Its a release they didn't have to make. SiM is good enough to take on all the new release models and at least be comparable if not better.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As would the SiM
If the SiM2 gives no real performance increases over SiM then upgrading from M1/2/3 etc to SiM negates the need for SiM2 at the moment.
Its a release they didn't have to make. SiM is good enough to take on all the new release models and at least be comparable if not better.

Because want something shiny and new - that’s how is marketed , if they are going to spend money they want the new model - it’s the same every single year , we know TM and Callaway will release something , Ping etc are creeping closer - it’s the same with shoes , clothes - all about cycles and manufactures keeping up with each. The market is very wide with something for all

 

[harpo_72]

This where the sustainable argument and environmental questions start to arise. Why should I care about pollution when these companies are generating all this land fill??
They are using our vanity but when will the buying public realise?

 

[patricks148]

i'm hankering for a change, but i doubt anything will get near the M2 still

 

[Orikoru]

When Rick Shiels tested the sim 2 & the sim max 2 they gave nearly identical numbers.
What’s the point?

For him yeah, since he hits most of them out of the middle. Usually the 'point' is that one is more forgiving and aimed at mid to high handicappers. A pro testing them side by side is fairly useless in that regard.

 

[IanM]

As would the SiM
If the SiM2 gives no real performance increases over SiM then upgrading from M1/2/3 etc to SiM negates the need for SiM2 at the moment.
Its a release they didn't have to make. SiM is good enough to take on all the new release models and at least be comparable if not better.

..you are right, but they seem to have upgrade cycles they stick to regardless. The new models grab the "gotta have the latest model regardless" person and the "have older version and ready for a change" person. Seems a bit daft it happens so often, but if they didn't sell, they wouldn't do it!

 

[Imurg]

..you are right, but they seem to have upgrade cycles they stick to regardless. The new models grab the "gotta have the latest model regardless" person and the "have older version and ready for a change" person. Seems a bit daft it happens so often, but if they didn't sell, they wouldn't do it!

It could be said that they only sell because they do it...

 

[sunshine]

The obvious retort to that is why release it to us when it's not going to make a real difference?
Run the SiM for 2 years for the general public but put the changes into the Pro kit where a yard here and there counts.
Then, when SiM3 or whatever is next comes out there will be tangible gains to be had.
Replacing what is, arguably, the best driver of 2020 with a product that, on the face of things, doesn't provide much gain doesn't make sense..

TM have been here before, when they replaced RBZ with RBZ stage 2. Total disaster, led to more rushed out products like Jet Speed etc with limited incremental improvement, it stuffed retailers who were left with old stock, and alienated die hard fans who have to have the latest gear. Have they learned anything?