DQ for teeing off early?

[Colin L]

So what happens, for example, if the players can't tee off at the correct time because the group in front haven't yet moved out of range?

Provided all the players in the group are present and ready to start at the appointed time, they have met the requirement.

 

[GeeJay]

A nearby club installed an outdoor clock next to the first tee to address this issue. Apparently they enforce DQ for early starts. Not my club and not likely to be either (I'm not posh enough anyway).

 

[rulefan]

The group started teeing off about 7 or 8 minutes before their allocated time, about one tee slot ahead, as we have 8 minute tee slots. I understand that the committee member noticed that there was nobody on the tee at the correct time and asked why, which is how this infringement came to light.

I was officiating at the lowest division qualifier at a county team competition. The first group comprised three players from different clubs who had never entered a team at this level of play before.
They signed in etc and were told to report to the first tee ten minutes before their nominal start time. The duly arrived about 15 minutes ahead of time. Exchanged cards, identified their balls, looked at the timing sheet to determine who was to play first. All very laudable. They then looked ahead, saw the hole was clear and set off, spraying their balls into the trees.
A few minutes later the starter arrived, saw no one around, started setting his kit out, radio, clock, local rules of the day (which included a note that a fairway bunker on the 2nd hole was GUR play prohibited) etc. He checked with base that the players had signed in then saw three figures on the first green. What to do?

 

[ManinBlack]

Sorry, but you shouldn't tee off early or late in a comp and penalties should be enforced. It is enforced by our Ladies section.

Yes, our ladies are a pedantic bunch too. Reasonable to penalise latecomers but if going off early gives no material advantage it's just common sense to allow it, as I'm sure it would have been had the individuals involved asked the pro. No wonder golf gets a bad name.

 

[chrisd]

Crikey Del ............. i find myself agreeing with you. Its a crazy decision to penalise a group for a few minutes early tee off- what if you rely on one if the group who's watch is a few minutes early, does everyone have to synchronise watches with the club grandfather clock in the members lounge?

 

[delc]

Crikey Del ............. i find myself agreeing with you. Its a crazy decision to penalise a group for a few minutes early tee off- what if you rely on one if the group who's watch is a few minutes early, does everyone have to synchronise watches with the club grandfather clock in the members lounge?

Suppose there might be a problem if the first group started an hour before the rest, because the weather might change and the tee and hole positions might be changed by the Green keepers, so they would not be playing the same course under the same conditions. I don't think that 7 or 8 minutes early would be a problem. In any case we have non drawn competitions when you can go out whenever you to want on the day.

 

[bladeplayer]

We must have a higher percentage of common sense at our place. Sections or committees never become involved.

Go a bit early if it's clear - no one is getting hurt.

If you are running a bit late, swap with the group behind if they are ready so you've got time to register and lace your shoes up.

They're just club comps not WAGR

LIKE .......

..
I know the "if you break one rule what others would you break" fans will turn up but ya know what, we fork out alota dosh to play golf, sometimes stuf happens , deal with it and move on, but this band of merry men (women) that are mad to penalise & DQ people should head off back to sherwood forrest & hug a tree or sumit

 

[delc]

Decision 6-3a/5 quoted by Region3, corroborates what is already in the words of Rule 6-3a. Nowhere does the Rule or the penalty statement mention starting late. You must start at the time established by the Committee; if you don't, you have a loss of hole or 2 stroke penalty if within five minute of that time (before or after is implicit). More than 5 minutes away (again either before or after is implicit) and you are disqualified. Starting before the designated time is just the same as starting after it: neither is at the time.

You mention a few minutes. As you will see from the Decision, it is necessary to establish by how much time each player is away from the correct time. Someone might have been lucky and teed off on time.

Sorry to be pedantic, but rule 6-3a does include the phrase "within five minutes after his starting time", followed by the penalties!

 

[delc]

I did compete in a reasonably major Seniors competition last year. There we had a Starter with a clock and a PA system, just like the pro tours! We were told we had to report to the Starter at least 5 minutes before our tee time, and we weren't allowed to start until the second hand had clicked past the correct minute and our names were announced to the almost non existent crowd. A bit OTT for a normal club competition! 🙄

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Rules are rules! How many are we supposed to ignore? TBH I wasn't aware that you could be DQ'd for starting before your allocated time prior to this incident, and I used to be a Competition Secretary at another club.

That's a truely frightening thought

So would you have DQ them in your previous role as Comp Sec

And to confirm I wouldn't DQ anyone for teeing off earlier than their tee time

 

[delc]

That's a truely frightening thought

So would you have DQ them in your previous role as Comp Sec

And to confirm I wouldn't DQ anyone for teeing off earlier than their tee time

No I wouldn't have DQ'd them because a) I wasn't aware that teeing off a minute or two early was an infringement. b) I didn't check when players started their rounds, leaving this to the pro shop. We (the committee) were more concerned about how long they finished after the group in front, in an effort to discourage slow play. I should also add that we normally included a committee member in the first group who took in the cards and did the scoring after completing his round.

 

[Tashyboy]

Three of my friends were first off in a Comp. As there was nobody ahead of them on the course they teed off a few minutes early. This must have been witnessed by a committee member, because they were all later DQ'd. I have heard of players being penalised or DQ'd for teeing off late, but not early. What is the relevant rule or decision on this? One of my friends was livid about this because he would otherwise have won a prize!

P.S. There was not a Starter for this comp.

Delc out of interest, when was the group later DQ'D, coz the fact that one of your pals would of won a prize tells me that somone has chucked a teddy out of the pram. I have another feeling that if he had not got a prize coming, nowt would of been said. Where they DQ'D as soon as they got back to the clubhouse.
What also does me is that if it was witnessed by a committee member why did he not stop them.

 

[delc]

Delc out of interest, when was the group later DQ'D, coz the fact that one of your pals would of won a prize tells me that somone has chucked a teddy out of the pram. I have another feeling that if he had not got a prize coming, nowt would of been said. Where they DQ'D as soon as they got back to the clubhouse.
What also does me is that if it was witnessed by a committee member why did he not stop them.

There was a longer than normal delay in announcing the results, with a discussion going on between the scorer and the Seniors Captain, which I wasn't involved in. As I said before, the committee member noticed that there was nobody on the first tee at the time when the first group should have teeing off. They had already gone, so he couldn't really stop them.

 

[rulefan]

This may be of interest:

USGA JOURNAL AND TURF MANAGEMENT: FEBRUARY, 1953
Some Principles behind the Rules of GolfBy JOSEPH C. DEY, JR.USGA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

Purpose and Principles
The first thing to clarify is the purpose of the Rules. Why do we need them?The purpose of the Rules is to make sure, as far as possible, that everybody plays the same game.

Underlying the Rules are two very simple principles:
PLAY THE COURSE AS WE FIND IT.PLAY THE BALL AS IT LIES.

Playing the Course as We Find It
Let's look at the first principle and see how that idea is carried out in the Rules, the idea of playing the course as wefind it.

There is a Rule which requires us to start at the times and in the order arranged by the committee. We may notstart early, and we may not start late.
This has a relationship to the principle of playing the course as we find it.
Inthe 1940 Open Championship six players disqualified themselves when, on their own initiative, they started theirfinal rounds about a half hour ahead of schedule, without authority. A storm was in the making, and it could havebeen a decided advantage to them to start a half hour early, but they were obliged to take the course as they found itat the times drawn for them
When they did otherwise, they were not playing the same game as the others. One ofthe six players turned in a score which apparently tied him for the Championship, but it couldn't be accepted.

 

[bobmac]

As I said before, the committee member noticed that there was nobody on the first tee at the time when the first group should have teeing off. They had already gone, so he couldn't really stop them.

I hope he didn't break the speed limit when he drove home

 

[SatchFan]

Delc's experience jogged my memory to something I read fairly recently. Copied and pasted from an article about Nick Faldo in the Guardian -

The first tournament Faldo entered was a monthly medal and he shot a 72 minus five for a medal-winning 67, only to be disqualified - and how typical is this of the blazered world of golf - for having teed off at 10.45am when juniors weren't allowed on the course until 11. Faldo - and how typical is this of him - never played another monthly medal in his life.

 

[rulefan]

how typical is this of the blazered world of golf -

But he certainly was happy enough to wear a green blazer

 

[Slab]

Suppose there might be a problem if the first group started an hour before the rest, because the weather might change and the tee and hole positions might be changed by the Green keepers, so they would not be playing the same course under the same conditions. I don't think that 7 or 8 minutes early would be a problem. In any case we have non drawn competitions when you can go out whenever you to want on the day.

The rules really are fascinating sometimes (or rather their application is)

I think the old codgers do deserve a bit of sympathy but I'm sure we all agree there needs to be some kind of limit because as you say teeing off 60 minutes is just not on


But is 8 minutes deserving of a 'giving them a break' if so what about next week when another group are 11 minutes early are they ok too, then someones off 17 minutes early, well the precedents been set now so can hardly penalise those guys

We'd end up with a different rule at every course but we've already seen that not every club would enforce this breach anyway so we kinda have that already



Rules and their application. I think it would make a good tv documentary, the public could phone-vote for the outcomes

 

[ManinBlack]

Looking at this sensibly, surely, for a club competition, the starting times are there to determine the ORDER players go out. Thinking back, it wouldn't surprise me if I & some of my fellow competitors have gone off early at times, for example when the group in front have scratched or not turned up. I agree that if a group tee off an hour early because they know the weather is going to get worse later on they should be DQd, but going off in the correct order & being penalized is unnecessarily harsh. It's a club comp, for heaven's sake, not the Open Championship.

 

[delc]

Looking at this sensibly, surely, for a club competition, the starting times are there to determine the ORDER players go out. Thinking back, it wouldn't surprise me if I & some of my fellow competitors have gone off early at times, for example when the group in front have scratched or not turned up. I agree that if a group tee off an hour early because they know the weather is going to get worse later on they should be DQd, but going off in the correct order & being penalized is unnecessarily harsh. It's a club comp, for heaven's sake, not the Open Championship.

To be fair, the 3 players concerned have since accepted that the DQs were correct under the rules. The results sheet them as DQ rule 6-3. I guess that we will all be a bit more careful about our starting times in future. 😀