Downswing initiation

[YamiKuriboh]

Does anyone have a good swing thought for how to initiate the downswing? I keep getting stuck at the top and feel like I’m throwing my hands over the top resulting in pulls left. I feel like my hands should be coming down closer to my body but I’m not clear how to make space for them – should I be bumping my hips to the left towards the target or focus on turning my knees?

 

[Robin Hood]

Are you overthinking this ?

 

[Orikoru]

Are you overthinking this ?

Haha, read my mind. The downswing starts when the backswing finishes, right?

 

[anotherdouble]

Haha, read my mind. The downswing starts when the backswing finishes, right?

Are you sure, are you really sure that’s what is being asked

 

[Dibby]

Are you overthinking this ?

Exactly. Go skim a stone across some water, or overarm throw a tennis ball a long way. You may take a step to do it, but the concept and sequencing are the same. It's a pretty natural movement for a human to make if they have a modicum of athleticism and in terms of the golf swing if they are in a reasonable position at the end of the backswing.

 

[SocketRocket]

Exactly. Go skim a stone across some water, or overarm throw a tennis ball a long way. You may take a step to do it, but the concept and sequencing are the same. It's a pretty natural movement for a human to make if they have a modicum of athleticism and in terms of the golf swing if they are in a reasonable position at the end of the backswing.

Thats a good way to consider it. If you wanted to throw a golf ball at the ball on the floor you would lead down with your right elbow then release your forearm as you got to around hip high. Your left knee and hip would naturally start moving to the left and the hips and shoulders would then clear to make room for your arms to swing through. Our brains know how to do it if we let them.

 

[YamiKuriboh]

Exactly. Go skim a stone across some water, or overarm throw a tennis ball a long way. You may take a step to do it, but the concept and sequencing are the same. It's a pretty natural movement for a human to make if they have a modicum of athleticism and in terms of the golf swing if they are in a reasonable position at the end of the backswing.

I never thought of it like this before. Thank you so much for the visualization!

 

[jim8flog]

Most coaches will say the downswing starts with the movement of the hips towards the leading side of your body.

 

[SGC001]

Does anyone have a good swing thought for how to initiate the downswing? I keep getting stuck at the top and feel like I’m throwing my hands over the top resulting in pulls left. I feel like my hands should be coming down closer to my body but I’m not clear how to make space for them – should I be bumping my hips to the left towards the target or focus on turning my knees?

Faldo had a nice image for it in his video with leadbetter at Valderama.
Hips bumps a little and he described it as re-rotation of the arms (happens naturally with that motion) which he illustrated with a multi coloured beach ball. A basketball can show same idea.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This might help

 

[SocketRocket]

This might help

Too much to think about. Your brain already knows how to move our body parts, you just need to let it do it without interference.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Too much to think about. Your brain already knows how to move our body parts, you just need to let it do it without interference.

Disagree in as far as the OP was asking for a trigger and this does give some clear indication of the sequencing. I would be breaking the content down and working on it bit by bit and with a lot of repetition work in mirrors and on camera

 

[Dibby]

Disagree in as far as the OP was asking for a trigger and this does give some clear indication of the sequencing. I would be breaking the content down and working on it bit by bit and with a lot of repetition work in mirrors and on camera

Modern research and sports science shows that people learn more efficiently by being given a task or problem to solve by themselves, rather than telling them how to do it. It's a very natuiral thing. When you were a baby learning to walk, did you think about what order you moved your hips, thighs, shins, ankles arms etc... or did you just think "Problem: I want to get somewhere upright. Solution: I will try various things untill I succeed"?

The issue with golf is obtaining a clear understanding as to exactly what the problem is. After a few swings, almost anyone can hit the ball, maybe not into the air, but they can hit it. Therefore the task must be more than just hit the ball - if you want to hit it squarely and with power you have to refine what you are trying to achieve. In this instance taking a movement pattern someone is already familiar with and applying it to a golf swing is a lot simpler than focusing on specific positions and body parts.

The same result could also potentially be achieved by getting someone to swing out to the right (for a right hander) because to do this you can't use the upper body too much or you will come over the top and swing left. However just saying swing right may not be enough, maybe you need to place an obstacle outsside the ball, and then the body will have to adapt to avoid hitting it. This is why such drills work effectively, because the problem because very clear (don't hit the obstacle" the golfer is able to adapt and solve the problem themselves.

Thats not to say technical teaching has no place, but it's far more useful for fine tuning elite performance, than for most participants in amateur sports.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The OP asked for some thoughts/ideas and that is what the video provide

 

[Jacko_G]

The OP asked for some thoughts/ideas and that is what the video provide

That video would make anyone top the ball. Honest to goodness I'd just freeze trying to remember that sequence never mind try and get my body to follow it!!!

Just focus, visualise and execute.

 

[SocketRocket]

Modern research and sports science shows that people learn more efficiently by being given a task or problem to solve by themselves, rather than telling them how to do it. It's a very natuiral thing. When you were a baby learning to walk, did you think about what order you moved your hips, thighs, shins, ankles arms etc... or did you just think "Problem: I want to get somewhere upright. Solution: I will try various things untill I succeed"?

The issue with golf is obtaining a clear understanding as to exactly what the problem is. After a few swings, almost anyone can hit the ball, maybe not into the air, but they can hit it. Therefore the task must be more than just hit the ball - if you want to hit it squarely and with power you have to refine what you are trying to achieve. In this instance taking a movement pattern someone is already familiar with and applying it to a golf swing is a lot simpler than focusing on specific positions and body parts.

The same result could also potentially be achieved by getting someone to swing out to the right (for a right hander) because to do this you can't use the upper body too much or you will come over the top and swing left. However just saying swing right may not be enough, maybe you need to place an obstacle outsside the ball, and then the body will have to adapt to avoid hitting it. This is why such drills work effectively, because the problem because very clear (don't hit the obstacle" the golfer is able to adapt and solve the problem themselves.

Thats not to say technical teaching has no place, but it's far more useful for fine tuning elite performance, than for most participants in amateur sports.

I agree. Our brain knows how to move the body correctly as long as the task it has to process is clear. The problem is with many people that they want to get the ball airborne by hitting up on it, our brain knows to do this you must get on the back foot and flip the wrists, we know this won't work though so we have to set our brain the task to hit the ball downwards, this will move our bodies in the correct sequence. Throw a ball, a javelin a stick etc, you will automatically move your legs, hips, shoulders, arms etc in the correct kinematic sequence.

 

[Roops]

The above is pretty spot on, the movement of the body should be an effect of the throwing motion, not the task. The only difference is that you are throwing the club head into the ball, rather than the stick/Javelin etc. If you search for Mike Malaska on YouTube, he's got a load of great vids on this sort of stuff.