Downswing question?

[G1z1]

I think I’m starting to lose confidence in my pro. So started with this pro maybe 12 weeks ago and go weekly. First time I go I explain my faults are I come over the top and struggle with driver 3 wood.
To be fair the pro has improved my grip and backswing resulting in more consistent irons shots no doubt about it but 12 weeks on I still have the same two problems as I had 12 weeks ago.
The pro also does everything by eye so he doesn’t use any equipment to track my shots, so I’m wondering just how good you can be just with the eye and now recently he’s saying my downswing must start with the legs as in i need to thrust my left knee out first but the problem I have with that is I feel it’s also throwing my right shoulder out and making my over the top even worse. I said this to him and he adamant that no it must start with the left knee.
Must the downswing start with throwing the left knee out ?

 

[bobmac]

If you think you know more about the golfswing than the pro does, it's time to change pros

 

[G1z1]

If you think you know more about the golfswing than the pro does, it's time to change pros

I don’t for one second think I know more but I am noticing on my own sim that my over the top is getting worse and I think it’s because I’m throwing my left knee out. It might very well be me that’s wrong. That why I’m asking the question should the downswing start with throwing the left knee out ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The pro I use tends to do a lot of it by eye although he does have access to simulators if you want to get specific data). He works as a PGA examiner and course work assessor so is up to date with the latest teaching trends. He will usually video a swing on my phone so I have an image of what we are working on and what the good one should look like. I think you need to have a frank and open discussion with your pro and discuss exactly what you are trying to achieve and ask him how his tuition fits into that and how he is planning to improve you. It may be you need to master one fix before he can move on and work on the next issue

 

[BiMGuy]

I think I’m starting to lose confidence in my pro. So started with this pro maybe 12 weeks ago and go weekly. First time I go I explain my faults are I come over the top and struggle with driver 3 wood.
To be fair the pro has improved my grip and backswing resulting in more consistent irons shots no doubt about it but 12 weeks on I still have the same two problems as I had 12 weeks ago.
The pro also does everything by eye so he doesn’t use any equipment to track my shots, so I’m wondering just how good you can be just with the eye and now recently he’s saying my downswing must start with the legs as in i need to thrust my left knee out first but the problem I have with that is I feel it’s also throwing my right shoulder out and making my over the top even worse. I said this to him and he adamant that no it must start with the left knee.
Must the downswing start with throwing the left knee out ?

Depends what you mean by throwing the knee out.

Have you watched any of the George Gankas content on YouTube? He teaches opening up the left leg. Maybe worth checking out of your pro is teaching something similar

 

[bobmac]

The 'over the top' move is hard to fix and pros have their own theories and techniques on how to stop it.
The reason I said what I said was if you are starting to doubt the pros word, there's less chance you will commit fully to his advice.
When you say throwing the knee out, which direction, towards the target or the direction you are facing at address?

How bad is it, is it causing a big slice?

 

[G1z1]

The 'over the top' move is hard to fix and pros have their own theories and techniques on how to stop it.
The reason I said what I said was if you are starting to doubt the pros word, there's less chance you will commit fully to his advice.
When you say throwing the knee out, which direction, towards the target or the direction you are facing at address?

How bad is it, is it causing a big slice?

He wants me to throw my left knee out to target, since I’ve been doing that my numbers on my sim have went from an -2 to about -5 now. My -2 were just a nice baby fade but -5 is just a bad shot that’s making me miss greens. I feel as if I’m now just going backwards. His thinking is if I start with the left knee the club should fall behind me but I just don’t feel it’s working for me personally.

 

[bobmac]

Was the baby fade so bad?
I'd be tempted to leave it alone

 

[G1z1]

Was the baby fade so bad?
I'd be tempted to leave it alone

No but I feel as if that’s just what I hit I’m not trying to hit a fade and when I took up golf my natural shot was a draw but another pro somehow changed it to a fade/slice. When I stand upto the ball I visualise a draw every time I just don’t hit one now lol but it’s the shot I always see. So I’m thinking I need to get back to a draw but to be honest I want to get to a level I can pick any shot shape and do it comfortably, might never happen but that’s what I’m aiming for.

 

[Ethan]

I would give my left (organ to be negotiated) for a baby fade. Nicest shot in golf.

The draw is an evil succubus that will tempt you in but then drag you down to a hell of snap hooks and wild uncontrollable slingers.

 

[bobmac]

No but I feel as if that’s just what I hit I’m not trying to hit a fade and when I took up golf my natural shot was a draw but another pro somehow changed it to a fade/slice. When I stand upto the ball I visualise a draw every time I just don’t hit one now lol but it’s the shot I always see. So I’m thinking I need to get back to a draw but to be honest I want to get to a level I can pick any shot shape and do it comfortably, might never happen but that’s what I’m aiming for.

Not even the best players in the world can do that.
But if that's what you want, I'll leave you to it and wish you good luck.

NB. Jack Nicklaus hit a fade

 

[G1z1]

Not even the best players in the world can do that.
But if that's what you want, I'll leave you to it and wish you good luck.

NB. Jack Nicklaus hit a fade

Well what I mean is I want to be able to hit a draw or fade at will. I always remember a few months after I took golf up I ended up playing with a guy who was 5 handicap and he was hitting draws and fades and I asked him are you doing that on purpose. He said yes I’ll show you and I said I’m just trying to make any contact with the ball lol

 

[Ethan]

Well what I mean is I want to be able to hit a draw or fade at will. I always remember a few months after I took golf up I ended up playing with a guy who was 5 handicap and he was hitting draws and fades and I asked him are you doing that on purpose. He said yes I’ll show you and I said I’m just trying to make any contact with the ball lol

Hitting fades and draws at will, at least with any measure of control, is beyond the skill of most golfers, including many very good golfers who rely on one stock reliable shape, often a fade. As Bob said, Jack Nicklaus did rather well with a fade, as did Ben Hogan, and it is the preferred shape for that guy with the busted leg who turned up at The Masters.

 

[sweaty sock]

Journey of a thousand miles etc...

All i would say is a lesson a week is probably too much, your going to have alot of repeat lessons saying the same thing.

As a rule of thumb thats worked for me, try to get at least 24 hours of dedicated practice between lessons.... otherwise the pro will tell you the same thng with different words, or more likely as they know youll be dissapointed getting the same thing you paid £40 for last week, try to fix the same problem with a different technique - which kills any chance you have of progression....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Journey of a thousand miles etc...

All i would say is a lesson a week is probably too much, your going to have alot of repeat lessons saying the same thing.

As a rule of thumb thats worked for me, try to get at least 24 hours of dedicated practice between lessons.... otherwise the pro will tell ypu the same thng with different words, or more likely as they know youll be dissapointed getting the same thing you aid £40 for last week, try to fix the same problem with a different technique - which kills any chance you have of progression....

Once a week is way too much. Not enough time to hit balls and work on the changes and then take it onto the course and see what happens when you play. We all know the scenario of hitting it well after a lesson and then it not working on the course. You need to play and work out how the changes are working (or not) and keep working on the drills. If you play and it still isn't happening on the course I'd be speaking to my pro and telling him what is happening (the bad shot) and explaining its working well in practice. Sometimes you have to accept you will go backwards to make forward progress. I tend to give it 3-4 weeks of playing to let it feed into my game from working through the changes on the range and accept my scoring (and handicap) may suffer as a result. As long as I can see progress and hit more and more shots consistently or with the shape we're working on then I am happy to give it time

 

[patricks148]

Journey of a thousand miles etc...

All i would say is a lesson a week is probably too much, your going to have alot of repeat lessons saying the same thing.

As a rule of thumb thats worked for me, try to get at least 24 hours of dedicated practice between lessons.... otherwise the pro will tell you the same thng with different words, or more likely as they know youll be dissapointed getting the same thing you paid £40 for last week, try to fix the same problem with a different technique - which kills any chance you have of progression....

I'd agree one lesson a week doesn't really allow you time to properly work on any changes and if you don't or can't practise what is being taught then it's not really going uo work.

A lesson it's self isn't going cure problems just like that it takes time for things to work.

 

[Foxholer]

Well what I mean is I want to be able to hit a draw or fade at will. I always remember a few months after I took golf up I ended up playing with a guy who was 5 handicap and he was hitting draws and fades and I asked him are you doing that on purpose. He said yes I’ll show you and I said I’m just trying to make any contact with the ball lol

That's going to take a considerable length of time to achieve!

The key to lessons is, as others have intimated, getting the right balance of lessons and practice - to bed the inevitable changes in. As others have posted, once a week could be too often for actual lessons. When I was getting lessons, I was also able to practice every day too, so 1 lesson per week was actual do-able, though that intensity only lasted about 6 weeks. Lessons also only lasted until the coach was sure I had got the change he was intending to instill too - any more was deemed too much to take on.

How often are you able to practice - to imbed the changes that the coach has made? And has he given you any drills to assist?

FWIW. My thought on the start of the downswing is that it's the left hip that inititiates it - a slight drop and turn which is what triggers/flows into the (more visible) left knee move. It's a flow though, not a series of jerks. My backswing might not even be 100% complete (though certainly nearly) when the hip movement happens.

 

[adasko]

You have to lower your expectation. You are trying to master game that can't be mastered.
Take your sim and his numbers with pinch of salt its not a trackman or gcquad so numbers are not that accurate.
If you been playing for 18 months you will have more crap rounds than good ones and plenty of lightbulb moments.
Decide on one pro and stick with him.
How much you practice stuff he tells you after the lesson ?

 

[Neilds]

I agree with Adasko, stop trying to get the perfect game- it doesn’t exist! You are getting a bit of paralysis by analysis and not letting the swing flow. Most here will agree that weekly lessons are too often and you need time to get used to what the pro is trying to teach you.
What I do agree with though is that if you don’t get in with your pro and his methods, find a different one. All have different ways and you need to find one you get on with. But make sure you chat with them before signing up for lessons so you both understand what the aim is

 

[BiMGuy]

Well what I mean is I want to be able to hit a draw or fade at will. I always remember a few months after I took golf up I ended up playing with a guy who was 5 handicap and he was hitting draws and fades and I asked him are you doing that on purpose. He said yes I’ll show you and I said I’m just trying to make any contact with the ball lol

The best players in the world play the vast majority of their shots with one shot shape.

Unless you are needing to hit a particular shape to get out of trouble it’s completely unnecessary to hit it both ways.

All that will happen is you’ll increase the opportunity to hit a double cross and increase your dispersion.