Beezerk
Money List Winner
I’ve seen many caddies tell the player what club to hit, talk them through the shot and ask them to commit to it. Doesn’t always go well mind
Does Rory need to change Caddy
- Thread starter Arthur Wedge
- Start date
I’ve seen many caddies tell the player what club to hit, talk them through the shot and ask them to commit to it. Doesn’t always go well mind
Totally get that. How many walk onto the tee, player pulls out driver, caddy grabs it and wont let go? If the player has made their mind up, that tends to be it, particularly off the tee.I’ve seen many caddies tell the player what club to hit, talk them through the shot and ask them to commit to it. Doesn’t always go well mind
There is a clip from earlier this year where a player wants to play a daft shot, through trees, under branches, clearing water. We would have needed to hit it waist high about 200yds. The caddy basically told him to stop being an idiot and the guy eventually agreed. It's very funny to watch, the caddy is pleading with him, but I bet that would not happen on a tee.
mister v
Newbie
I voted yes... harry obviously doesnt have a strong enough voice to say "dont hit driver you knob"
ntommo
Newbie
He was 2 ahead on the 68th hole of the US Open, not sure a caddy could help him. He should maybe ask Bob Rotella to have a go at the Open to calm the mind 
sunshine
Well-known member
Harry Diamond was the best caddie in the world for 68 holes. Then the worst caddie in the world for 4 holes. This is such an idiotic line of thinking.
Does anyone have the audio of the conversation on the tee? Did Rory debate 7 iron vs. 8 iron, or driver vs. 3 wood on 18? Players have a plan on how they are going to play a hole, but it is pretty common to react to the situation and make a change. If Rory had executed the high cut on the 18th tee and wedged it in close everyone would have praised his ability to be flexible.
Does anyone have the audio of the conversation on the tee? Did Rory debate 7 iron vs. 8 iron, or driver vs. 3 wood on 18? Players have a plan on how they are going to play a hole, but it is pretty common to react to the situation and make a change. If Rory had executed the high cut on the 18th tee and wedged it in close everyone would have praised his ability to be flexible.
Agreed
Swango1980
Well-known member
To be fair, I'm not sure anybody was think Harry Diamond was the best caddie in the world for 68 holes? Although they might have been thinking McIlroy in a pretty decent golfer
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
There is execution and decisions. If the execution is good, then certain decisions can look great, but if execution is poor then it can look different.
Lot of talk about his last 4 holes, as that is where the bogeys came, but remember he took the lead on 13 and realised he had it. The tee shot on 14 was poor. Hitting the gallery saved it and he had a decent lie (about time some may say) :- managed to scramble the par. By 16 he was executing the shots okay again, scuppered by a poor putt.
Maybe wasn't helped by Faldo being in commentary (in the UK). He was from a different time, and was such a good long iron player, he likely sees the 18th as two 4 irons and a simple par! These days the strategy is more about proximity, and many players may feel more comfortable in pressure situations "going for it" rather than trying to "steer" something.
For me, the caddy has come into question in the past, but not for these last few holes.
Lot of talk about his last 4 holes, as that is where the bogeys came, but remember he took the lead on 13 and realised he had it. The tee shot on 14 was poor. Hitting the gallery saved it and he had a decent lie (about time some may say) :- managed to scramble the par. By 16 he was executing the shots okay again, scuppered by a poor putt.
Maybe wasn't helped by Faldo being in commentary (in the UK). He was from a different time, and was such a good long iron player, he likely sees the 18th as two 4 irons and a simple par! These days the strategy is more about proximity, and many players may feel more comfortable in pressure situations "going for it" rather than trying to "steer" something.
For me, the caddy has come into question in the past, but not for these last few holes.
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wjemather
Well-known member
Pretty sure no-one has claimed this. Not even for 1 hole, let alone 68.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Can someone share the criteria that defines the best caddie please.
IanM
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Swango1980
Well-known member
It might mean different things to different people. But, it is clear there are some excellent caddies out there. Whereas if I was to be a caddy, I'd probably be rubbish.
Some players may require more technical help, for example a player who isn't great at reading greens might do well with a caddy who is brilliant at reading greens. It is great if a caddy that knows the players game inside out, so that when push comes to shove, they can make the best decision on behalf of the player. The player may be going through all sorts of emotions, so it can be good if they have a caddy who can at least take charge of the type of shot to play and the club to take. Some players may just really like the discussion, and feel more comfortable once it has been discussed and both walk away happy with their solution, even if the final decision was the players. (plus, if it goes wrong, some might find it more comforting to blame the caddy that blame themselves
)I think a lot of caddies offer a general calming presence. They are mainly shrinks rather than bag carriers. They can keep the player grounded, and stop their mind running away from them. They just know what to say, and when to say it.
We'll never know what might have happened on Sunday if Rory had a different caddy. If Bones was on the bag, would he have over shot the 15th green? And, even if he had, would Bones have managed to calm him down afterwards? I don't know what was going through McIlroy's head in those last few holes, but he looked scared to death. Once he bogied that par 3, I could almost feel that was grating on him. Losing a shot just after establishing a really good position on the leaderboard. Maybe the outcome would have been no different, maybe it would. But, personally I'd love to see McIlroy have a caddy that has a really good reputation, and just see if that is the small gain that he needs in the biggest moments.
sunshine
Well-known member
Where do you get this from?
After he bogeyed the par 3 15th, he launched a magnificent drive down 16, fired in an iron to the heart of the green then rolled a good looking putt that finished 2.5 feet past the hole. This was textbook golf, didn't look scared at all. He then had a complete brain fart and missed a gimme putt.
It's amusing how you are projecting all these fears and emotions on to McIlroy. But it's all in your head.
I'll grant you he looked nervous over the putt on 18. Reminded me of an England footballer in a penalty shoot out.
4LEX
Well-known member
Rory is very headstrong so the answer is probably no. What cost him was his own mistakes, nothing from the caddy. He's one of the best drivers on tour so he obviously backed himself to hit a decent shot on the last. The unfortunate luck he had on the par 5 where he was feet from having an easy two put birdie, to ending up in a terrible lie 40 foot off the green also had more to do with things than caddy error.
Being a tour caddy is more about how comfy you are in that persons company as you're spending an awful lot of time together in private jets, hotels/rental houses and obviously on the range and course. I don't think Rory has the personality like Woods to keep it simply business.
The bigger issue is his inabilty to close out big events, we've seen him melt down in Dubai a few times recently and this was a much bigger version of that. I'm convinced he just needs to get one over the line and more will follow but this drought isn't looking good at the moment. Also not sure where his head is at off the course because it's very bizarre to file for a divorce and then suddenly everything is fine a few weeks later.
Being a tour caddy is more about how comfy you are in that persons company as you're spending an awful lot of time together in private jets, hotels/rental houses and obviously on the range and course. I don't think Rory has the personality like Woods to keep it simply business.
The bigger issue is his inabilty to close out big events, we've seen him melt down in Dubai a few times recently and this was a much bigger version of that. I'm convinced he just needs to get one over the line and more will follow but this drought isn't looking good at the moment. Also not sure where his head is at off the course because it's very bizarre to file for a divorce and then suddenly everything is fine a few weeks later.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Where did I get that from??? The missed putt. The look on his face.
But of course, I am simply expressing my opinion in how I feel he felt. I know I do not know for sure, nor does anyone. You may feel he was walking down the 16th full of confidence, not a worry in the world. I just feel the tension was getting to him more than it might get to him at other times, or more than it gets to a lot of other top golfers. I didn't say he was incapable of executing a good golf shot.
So, no need to shut me down when I admit I have no certainty. But, none of us often have certainty when expressing opinions, albeit some of us like to let other believe our opinion is certain
D
Deleted member 25575
Guest
Who is to say with another caddie he would have even been in that situation in the first place? Maybe he feels so comfortable with Harry it enables him to play his best golf.
Maybe, just maybe he is no longer ‘all that’ maybe his days of winning majors are behind him now, I know we all want him to win another one, two, several, but maybe he’s done in that regard.
Maybe, just maybe he is no longer ‘all that’ maybe his days of winning majors are behind him now, I know we all want him to win another one, two, several, but maybe he’s done in that regard.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Some good points about Rory and his caddy situation from Iain Carter https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/articles/cj77gjl15j7o
Swango1980
Well-known member
I suppose the more general question is, is there such a thing as an excellent, good, average, poor, etc caddy? One answer is they simply make no difference whatsoever. Another answer is yes, caddies can be good, bad and ugly. Maybe one caddy can be immense for one player, useless to another with a different personality.
If there is such a thing as a great caddy, what does it amount to in shots gained by the elite player over 72 holes? 1 or 2, 3 or 4, etc? Not sure anyone knows the answer to that. But, if they can save you a small number of shots, it can make a huge difference.
Is Harry Diamond the perfect caddy for Rory? Maybe, maybe not. Then again, who is to say other golfers like Scheffler and Bryson have the perfect caddy for them? Could they elevate their games even more with someone else on the bag?
I felt bad for McIlroy, but this thread had made me feel even worse for Diamond. Him and Rory will be aware of this general debate. Diamond must be desperate to win a Major with Rory, and Rory will know that, and a big reason why he was so devastated at the end. He could still so easily have won with his caddy, a couple of made putts, or a couple of mistakes from Bryson, the US Open could have been his.
I said I'd love to see if McIlroy could elevate game with a different caddy. But, more than that, I'd love to see him win a major with Diamond on his bag
If there is such a thing as a great caddy, what does it amount to in shots gained by the elite player over 72 holes? 1 or 2, 3 or 4, etc? Not sure anyone knows the answer to that. But, if they can save you a small number of shots, it can make a huge difference.
Is Harry Diamond the perfect caddy for Rory? Maybe, maybe not. Then again, who is to say other golfers like Scheffler and Bryson have the perfect caddy for them? Could they elevate their games even more with someone else on the bag?
I felt bad for McIlroy, but this thread had made me feel even worse for Diamond. Him and Rory will be aware of this general debate. Diamond must be desperate to win a Major with Rory, and Rory will know that, and a big reason why he was so devastated at the end. He could still so easily have won with his caddy, a couple of made putts, or a couple of mistakes from Bryson, the US Open could have been his.
I said I'd love to see if McIlroy could elevate game with a different caddy. But, more than that, I'd love to see him win a major with Diamond on his bag
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Adam Scott had the legend in his own mind that is Steve Williams on the bag when he chucked the Open away so it isn't necessarily the caddy. They aren't the ones having to put the ball in the hole so you can argue that what difference would a new caddy bring to McIlroy that he isn't already getting and would a new partnership actually be more of a distraction as each get to know each other
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
It’s down to skill of the golfer but also luck.
Rory and Bryson could have both doubled the last but Bryson got lucky in the waste area as did Rory.
Bryson’s bunker shot was class and was the difference .
For me the waste areas were not as much a punishment as the usual US open rough.
Most times they had a shot to the green with spin, you don’t get that out of US open rough normally.
Don’t think the caddies came into it.
Rory and Bryson could have both doubled the last but Bryson got lucky in the waste area as did Rory.
Bryson’s bunker shot was class and was the difference .
For me the waste areas were not as much a punishment as the usual US open rough.
Most times they had a shot to the green with spin, you don’t get that out of US open rough normally.
Don’t think the caddies came into it.
