Distances & Handicap

[andiritchie]

its about clubhead speed and ball speed conbined what gives the distance and how efficent you get them working together which gives a 'smash factor'

ball speed / clubhead speed give a smash factor 1.50 is max just shows how you make the most of your clubhead speed

 

[TonyN]

Reading this thread with a bit of an open mind and refusing to post because I am not confident I will be telling the truth when I post, I am not a liar its just that my game has changed alot in the last 2 months and I am still noy sure about distances. One thing I do know is, if I go to the range and 'whack' the ball as hard as I can, I can only just make the back fence with roll, and thats 250, and 1 in 10 will be down the middle. If I play the same shot with a relaxed swing at 70% of my maximum swing speed, it still almost rolls up to the back fence, and I may put 5/10 down the middle.

On the sublect of high handicappers being offered reg flex and actually using stiff shafts. Have you ever thought of slowing your swing dowm???

I used to swing at a speed suited to stiff flex but I was so inconsistent that I couldn't post a score under 90.

I recently filmed my swing and when I watched it back it was clear I had no tempo and I was lashing at the ball as hard as I could to try and be macho and make my 7 iron go 160. Truth is it probably only goes about 140 now. And thats because I have slowed my swing down alot. As mentioned with the driver, I probably only swing at about 70% power, it feels so slow that I can actually route how I like on the down swing.

Maybe these club fitter who have been in the game for probably 20/30 or some maybe even 40 years are trying to tell you something. This will not apply to everyone because there are always exceptions to he rules BUT, I urge all you high handicappers who have trouble with consistency to try a slower swing. It also helps you to stay relaxed and not tense up, we all know a relaxed muscle moves faster than a tensed one so the chances are you probably wont loose that much difference swinging a little slower, but I bet your find the fairways and greens alot more often!

 

[Parmo]

I hit my 7 iron about 150-160, I have been know to take a 7i on a par 3 (in winter) of about 130 with my swing totally slowed down, I hit the green far more often than with a 9i, my playing partner who is about a 22 hcp always try's to smash a PW no matter what the distance of a par 3 (unless really long), usually they end up either short, topped or hooked. I also use a 5i on a par 3 of 185 yrds down hill whereas he would take a 7i, yet sometimes he makes it mostly though he fluffs it.

I do think a lot of players, specially high handicappers tend to swing far to fast which in turn breaks their tempo and tenses them up on the down swing. Some of my longest drives have been when I have been trying to place the ball down the fairway and taken a slower drive to do so.

Driver - 230-245
3 wood - 210-230
5 wood - 190-210
Hybrid - 190-200
4 iron - 180-185
5 iron - 170-180
6 iron - 155-170
7 iron - 145-155
8 iron - 135-145
9 iron - 125-135
PW - 115-125
GW - 105-115
SW - 95-105

I don't tend to use numbers but use a feel for the distance I am facing and % of the shot.

 

[Cernunnos]

thankyou "herb"... exactly

<u>Consistency, confidence & dispersion</u> is all that divides good & average players & the whole point of the thread so why should your handicap really matter to a supposed clubfitter I use the term loosly, when all they are are sales people

Hell we've all had those moments where we hit that towering drive 10 yards beyond a green we know is 303yards or more tee to green, but that was not what I was interested in that at all, even though I've done it. But notice I've currently quoted my driver as only getting 250 - 260 yards

Oh I can muscle the drive 280 yards if I want, but if its at the cost of accuracy what's the point. Which is better 250 yards down the middle swinging within yourself, or 290 yards fifty yards right of the fairway in the trees, or for that matter that piercing draw sent probably 320 yards but left of the fairway onto the oposite bank of the river trent. No point what so ever.

Anyway I'm in great danger of falling into big willy zone myself there

So if I'm swinging my 6 iron in the fitting bay, between 83 & 95 mph what shaft would a club fitter choose...? especially when I'm hitting them sweet as a nut & the dispesion is also quite good.

I only mention this last one as I thought it interesting "andirichie" brought up. And another thankyou needed there.

lol and absolutely agree with you. I can hit a draw and smack it 350yds, trouble is its never where I want it lol.My natural shot is straightish to gentle fade and regularily 250/270 range and at least Im more often on the fairway or rolled into the light rough (doesnt mean I dont duff some of those shots too when I go for a biggy)but rarely in trouble.Its hard for me at my age now to go easy, having tasted a low H/C and been that BIG HITTER in the past, if I had the sense I have now with the skills I had then,I would have been a pro lol.

Why is it everyone feels the need to say I can hit it this far when in fact they can't (in normal conditions). It takes a massive amount of clubhead speed to hit the ball 350 yards. 270 up to 350 yards is around 30mph difference in clubhead speed. I have a clubhead speed of 110mph which is not overly quick, my average drive is probably between 260 and 270 yards but there is no way I can hit a 350 yard drive.

Most of our normal swings are around that hundred mph figure with driver I believe & you are right in normal conditions, the 250 - 280 range for most mortals with modern equipment is all most peole can hope for. Infact there are probably many golfers/posters, who only get driving distances in the 230-250range. Anything quoting 300 yards is going to be under extrodinary conditions, where the temperature & barametric air pressure suits hitting the ball just that little quicker & the ball will fly just that little better in exceptional conditions.

There are people out there that have amazing swing speeds & control with the driver & yet play shite golf. Just look at all these people who enter long drive contests.

However at times I do believe, that we are in danger of over-estimating our driving distances. Hence why the new technology of GPS & laser range finders are so useful to so many people to get this down accuratly. Then of course we get onto the subject of carry distance & roll. The Pro's will want to know carry & the amatures will want to know total distance, as it suites the amateur to get those few extra yards on their stats. Its interesting how many people are undure where the 150 yard markers are marking to, or if they are acurate. Same goes for the tee box distances. People see the tee blocks & assume that is where the distance is measured from when infact they need to find an additional coloured marker, usually near the edge of a tee box. For instance I've played with someone before who said to me, hey we've just driven 300 yards & I had to remind him, that the yellow pegs had been moved up onto the ladies box & handn't he seen the red circle at the edge of the tee box, five or so yards infront of where we'd played from.

But of course as pointed out, do we know the yardages are correct, many holes get messed around with, tee boxes moved, or even greens re-laid & sometimes other than where they were, some clubs are too lazy to alter their cards or tee box marker blocks. I've played courses where the yardage is clearly shorter than stated & courses where its certainly a bit longer than stated, though those are rare.

SimonC, do read some of these posts carefully & check other posts by the same people, as they will state when something is an exceptional drive, a wayward drive they've overpowered, which doesn't really count anyway & the actual average driving distance. I've quoted at the begining of my post my average with driver for this season is around 250 - 260 & for your information that is carry distance btw. Add five to ten to this figure & maximum, though often as not my carry & total are within a couple of yards. Last year when my driver swing was just that bit quicker & actually better I was using a driver with way too much loft for me & my carry distance was actually more than my total distance, as the pitch mark was generally five yards infront of where the ball finished, but was my own fault for letting the salesperson sell me an 11.5 degree TM quad, lovely club, but ill fitted to me. Anyway, I digress.

To come back to subject I'm actually not really that interested in peoples drives or ego's about their drives, as I say, somewhere in the thread they will have been truthful about the averages for that. No, I'm more interested in the distances through the complete bag. Pay particular note of the 6 iron, 7 iron & 8 iron distances people quote, as these are going to be where you will find the least ego[/b] as we all play parr 3 holes where we know within give or take five yards what that distance infact is. A good thing to do at least once a season, is visit a parr3 course where there are a good mixture of holes, ranging from say, 80 - 240ish yards each hole, or a nine hole course with a lot of parr3 holes & a few parr4 holes. I'm lucky to have both available to me within 2 - 6 miles of home, on top of some great local full length courses.

 

[Cernunnos]

I do think a lot of players, specially high handicappers tend to swing far to fast which in turn breaks their tempo and tenses them up on the down swing.

Good Point & I've in the past been guilty of rushing backswing & or followthrough, or even trying to shash hell out of a ball I didn't need to. It really takes a lot to get out of that. And one thing you don't mention, but I will, as often as not, because of the high handicap player swinging too fast, or at least trying to, there will be an overswing (guilty in the past & when nervous) & its that that will hurt dispertion or even getting clean contact to the ball. Thanks Parmo for bringing that one up.

I don't tend to use numbers but use a feel for the distance I am facing and % of the shot.

Yeah Parmo, If you don't know a distance or its clearly different than quoted, but can sense this hole is say a 9 iron or 6 iron or whatever, where the card distance has told you oh Its going to be an 8 iron or 7 iron.

There is a course our works society playes that the card seems to say 8 iron, but you take one look at the hole from the tee, to check where the actual distance is meassured from, as you don't believe your eyes & then take out an 9 iron, swing easy & the next thing is you are on the green. And there are holes as I say, the oposite is true... Again, good point.

 

[Cernunnos]

TonyN made a good point about amature high handicap players & swing speeds. Thing is get on one of those, launch monitor thingamys, take one swing going hell for leather & then another where its more meassured & you get very supprised as often as not there is little differnce between the two & sometimes the more measured ( percieved to be slower) swing is actually quicker through impact.

If you come accross a proper club fitter, then they will know their onions. though many golf shop sales people are just that sales people with percieved opinions. If you Quote them a handicap when asked, istead of saying, NOYB & watch me hit balls & see what you think I need & theyhey will go either high handicap player regular. Or old codger & offer a light shaft.

My father is in his 60's retired & he can crush a ball with a club. His handicap has gone up, as he's not playing as much as he should the last couple of years. But I bet if he walked into any usual golf store they'd be taking senior flex off the shelf before you could say Nick Faldo.

 

[TonyN]

I think it is safe to say that distances for a hole should be considered very loosly. But you should be very honest about your own. I always take an extra club if I think there may be a chance I will come short. I hit an 8 iron onto our island green yestarday and the distance is 122 to the centre, I roughly hit my 8 about 140 at he mo. I just 'swung easy' and thought if I am short I am on the front, If I hit it perfect I am at the back.

 

[Cernunnos]

If there is trouble short, then I'll always take that extra club, unless I've played a hole before.

 

[Tommo21]

Well I don’t hit the ball all that far. A good drive on a calm day will carry, important word CARRY, about 220 or 230 yards. That can, if it’s down wind, fairly dry, catch it with the right amount of height, give me a 280 or more drive. I know one or two people on this forum who genuinely hit the ball further that me quite easily, but after playing so many years that never bothers me in the slightest.

Funnily, I hit my irons a little stronger than my woods and if I’m standing on the 150 yard marker on a calm day it’s a 7 or a 6 if the pin is at the back. I think all your thoughts should be around carry.

Best score this year…..Medal rounds 73 gross 70 par. Worst 90 gross 72par.

Bounce game 72 on a par 71 Best ever bounce 64 and 67 in a medal.

Best part of my game…nothing, it all needs improving. Worst part of my game…..everything, it all needs improving. I’m never happy with my game.

 

[Cernunnos]

went out today& with all the wind & the damp conditions & after covering myself with mud when taking a fairway wood off the deck I suddenly became very good friends with my irons. Finding my 3 iron a lot less likely to get caught by the wind.

came off with a 92, would have been better too if It'd been a course I was really familiar with & was sure what the new clubs would be doing... Oh & most important of all my putting suddenly on the 18th my putting came together... oh brother...!

 

[theeaglehunter]

I only really know my distances accurately with my irons- i am currently off 20 and i hit the following distances (on well struck shots!) bearing in mind I use G10s with quite strong lofts which is a factor people need to take into consideration when comparing how far they and another person hit it:

5 iron- 175-180
6 iron- 165-170
7 iron- 155-160
8 iron- 145-150
9 iron- 135-140
pw - 125-130
sw - 95 - 105

As for my best round this was a 83 (+10)

worst round remembered a nice round figure of 100 (+28)

My Driver has in deed been known to hit it 300 yards but now I have started controlling it more resulting in me hitting 11 fairways in my last round at an estimated average of about 250 yards (total not carry)

 

[vig]

I've driven the par 4 13th at my gaff 5 times from yellows (286) and twice from the whites (320) so in total 7 times in over 200 rounds. Speaks volumes really.
More often than not if I use the driver i'm either well right or in the trees.
Interestingly if I play my Mizzy fli hi 3 iron it is nearly always on the fairway and around 20 yards short.
I very rarely use my driver on my course unless I have been hitting it sweet and the 3 sub eighty rounds that i have had there in the last 8 months consisted of ONE shot with the driver
Length isn't everything and also doesn't have a bearing on handicap.

 

[TonyN]

Today in the wind, I hit a 6 iron to a 125 yard green that was about 10 feet below the tee, perfect conditions this should of been a pw. My driving was woeful today, I started with a great strike right down the middle of our first and thought I was in for a great knock. I ditched the driver on the back 9 after a few wayward efforts and then I started topping the 4 iron. It was like birkdale conditions today.

 

[haplesshacker]

All I know is I have 14 clubs, one of which I only use on the green.

The other 13 all go about the same distance. Normally between 3 and 230 yards.

 

[Cernunnos]

The wind & the course I was playing today made a complete mokery of any thought of distances, so it was a case of feel your way round & leave the woods in the bag after an initial forray with them on a few holes I ended up using 3iron off most long tees. Really glad I decided to have the 3 iron in the S57 set. Now making me wonder what the 2 iron in the same set would be like. As I was hitting the 3 as sweet as a nut right out of the centre.

 

[RGuk]

I'm glad to see this thread going somewhere sensible.

I don't know if this is relevent but I did find an interesting article about clubhead speeds, launch and face angles. Longer hitters tend to achieve more distance with more clubhead speed AND lower face loft.

The reason why "most" players should use between 9-12 degree drivers is that some/most? of the guys who crush it also get lower face loft and lower launch. If you give a "beast" 8 or 9 degrees, the launch is almost never going to be ideal. I could get away with 8 or 9 degrees because I get a few degrees extra loft, but that's bad technique.

Tested using robots...to get up above 250 carry, you'll be needing to max out some of the figures. Some folks can do it, others can't.

I don't fit into the 100 mph plus catagory. But for those that do...here were the results for 115 mph.

115 mph

LOFT CARRY

9 257
11 * 259 *
14 244
16 240

So, what I want to know is "how fast are you swinging the bloody thing to get over 259 yards carry"?

probably too fast......

I can believe a ball travelling WITH ROLL any distance up to 350 yards....but CARRY.....???

 

[RGuk]

Out of interest. I'm on about 95 mph....here were the results.

95 mph

LOFT CARRY
9 201
11 * 210 *
14 204
16 198

Interestingly I switch between a 10 and a 12.....and my estimate of hitting a total distance of 210-230 looks spot on.....also, I have a 15 degree 3 wood, which (according to this) makes sense to go nearly as far.....

QED.

 

[viscount17]

I've got two drivers, an r7 11.5 regular and a G5 10.5 stiff.
oddly I have a 'controlled' swing with the r7 and feel freer with the G5 but the differences in distance between the two are not really worth bothering about except that the G5 tends to have a lower flight which lets me maintain distance in wind.

 

[Cernunnos]

Now all that's all well & good, realgolferuk... however regardless of loft of driver, different makes & models of the same loft actually come off the face at different angles of loft... known as launch angle

What the above proves is there is an envelope of launch angle that each player needs to be able to achieve. Which if I remeber correctly is about 14".

If the launch angle is too high & with too much backspin & the ball will do exactly what my 11.5 degree TM Super quad did last year & it'll launch closer to 20 degrees & with a couple of thousand too much backspin & the next thing is distance is actually robbed & on landing the ball actually bounces backwards, back up the fairway.

On the other hand, get a launch angle below the launch envelope & it will land too short & certainly with the risk of too much sidespin one way or the other, though there will be roll with these drives, so what the player looses in carry he gains in roll. But at this point its a personal preferance for the player. My preference is for lots of carry & a little roll, as who wants a good drive to land, only for it to roll 30 - 50 yards & end up in a drainage channel, ditch, bunker or lake.

Then all this is without taking into account the ball being used, different balls react differently off the face of the same driver. then put in the final variables of the swingspeed of the player & the swing & the angle the player brings the club into the ball at. How high has it been teed up, where in the stance is he adressing the ball, oh & the shaft used.etc.etc.etc.

This is why getting yourself fitted using a launch monitor is such a good idea.

The same goes for fitting irons too.

 

[TonyN]

Now all that's all well & good, realgolferuk... however regardless of loft of driver, different makes & models of the same loft actually come off the face at different angles of loft... known as launch angle

I think thats why Dave my the effort to research the facts based on a robot hitting the ball and not an average joe.