Different balls for the pros

[Orikoru]

Just carry on, nothing to see...

Did you not watch the event. Bryson was driving it 350, leaving himself 60 yards to the pin and hitting shots that you or I would hate, spinning wedges back off the front of greens etc. And he had a putt on 18 to get into the playoff.

As I said, not hating on Bryson - he's figured things out and executed, but there should be more to it.

Golf must have more of a premium on other parts of the game or it is going to become hugely one dimensional and any strategy element will be completely gone from the sport.

But he didn't win? I'm intrigued to see how he does the rest of the season, but if he's not winning tournaments left right and centre as a result of his bulking up, then he hasn't exactly bucked the system has he? I don't imagine he's going to be top 5 every week now just because he can hit it that far. Some weeks the driver won't be working for him, or the other parts of his game will let him down I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Just carry on, nothing to see...

Did you not watch the event. Bryson was driving it 350, leaving himself 60 yards to the pin and hitting shots that you or I would hate, spinning wedges back off the front of greens etc. And he had a putt on 18 to get into the playoff.

As I said, not hating on Bryson - he's figured things out and executed, but there should be more to it.

Golf must have more of a premium on other parts of the game or it is going to become hugely one dimensional and any strategy element will be completely gone from the sport.

Last sentence is spot on.

Interesting when the pro's were moaning about 17th at St Andrews being lengthened for 2010 Open and it been pointed out the holes length had not changed since 1900.

Must have been brutal in those days, even more recently as 1984 when Seve was hitting a 2 iron second shot on this hole in his battle with Tom Watson.

More recently the hole had become an iron of the tee and mid to short iron approach.

Running out of real estate to keep moving the tees back so bringing the ball back will give the modern pro the same test that many of the greats of the game had to face.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

But they're not "hitting it out of the park". No one has ever got close to scoring 18.

Golf is much more than just hitting the ball a long way. It's about accuracy and game strategy and all kinds of other things.

And until we can restrict all of those things, there's no reason to restrict the ball.

bm

Not really sure you are comparing likes by saying no one has ever got close to scoring 18. Scoring is different to making the game one dimensional by allowing the game to become purely a game of long hitters and then its who can chip/putt the best. No real Strategy is really involved in that.

The scorecards I have looked at of back in the 50,60s, were not 7000 + yards in majors or in other events. You have a look back and some were nearer like 6700. Why has the courses have been extended(tiger proofed as they said for a while), as the pros were hitting it out of the park and scoring lower on the old length courses.

I'm also not a lover for the argument of growing rough in at say 320-350 etc, as then it just takes the clubs out of the long hitters hands. Long hitting is an art and skill and should be part of the game, but not almost the main part.

Personally I want to see them hit a driver and the shorter hitters and by winding the ball back by say 10-20 Percentage(long hitters being affect more clearly). it would achieve that and you would also see long irons being hit into the longer holes etc, more strategy would come from that.

 

[badgermat]

Not really sure you are comparing likes by saying no one has ever got close to scoring 18. Scoring is different to making the game one dimensional by allowing the game to become purely a game of long hitters and then its who can chip/putt the best. No real Strategy is really involved in that.

Either it's a game where players aim for the best score possible, or it's a show where you're looking for players to do something entertaining.

I'd prefer that golf were a sport. And that means aiming for the best score, on any course in any conditions (both which variables are important).

Anything else smacks of compromised entertainments where the best performers are hobbled to allow less able players to compete.

If that's your aim we may as well start award prizes for the most stylish swing (a la figure skating, ballroom dancing and surfing).

bm

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Either it's a game where players aim for the best score possible, or it's a show where you're looking for players to do something entertaining.

I'd prefer that golf were a sport. And that means aiming for the best score, on any course in any conditions (both which variables are important).

Anything else smacks of compromised entertainments where the best performers are hobbled to allow less able players to compete.

If that's your aim we may as well start award prizes for the most stylish swing (a la figure skating, ballroom dancing and surfing).

bm

Don't think I have said what you are saying above.

There are not many sports were they change the size of the arena or park or court or pitch, to suit the better sports people and technology we have now....sure there must be an example other than golf, but struggling to think of one at the moment. I can think of sports that have changed the equipment tho(partly golf).

Have a think about that and if you think of any, would be interested to hear.

All the best, have fun. As don't really have anything more to add tbh

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Tennis took some of the pressure out of balls to reduce the dominance of the serve. Big servers still have a weapon but it doesn't take over quite so much. That has worked pretty well, no reason that golf can't learn from that

 

[badgermat]

Don't think I have said what you are saying above.

There are not many sports were they change the size of the arena or park or court or pitch, to suit the better sports people and technology we have now....sure there must be an example other than golf, but struggling to think of one at the moment. I can think of sports that have changed the equipment tho(partly golf).

Have a think about that and if you think of any, would be interested to hear.

All the best, have fun. As don't really have anything more to add tbh

Haha ... probably not

I guess my point is that either you (we) accept the bifurcation of the game, with different rules for pros and amateurs (like F1 v other motorsports), or we agree to compete on a level field (like athletics or tennis).

I'd prefer the latter, even though I'm useless and can barely struggle round 18 in under 95.

bm

 

[Papas1982]

Tennis took some of the pressure out of balls to reduce the dominance of the serve. Big servers still have a weapon but it doesn't take over quite so much. That has worked pretty well, no reason that golf can't learn from that

But has tennis improved as a spectacle? Imo it hasn't as now all the players are great returners (and runners) but big servers rarely win. Federer excluded who isn't exactly a huge hitter, but has realised he needs to win points quickly.

 

[Imurg]

Theres more to the game than hitting it further than everyone else..
Take the 11th hole in the final round..
600 miles long..Bryson eases his drive 350+ but ends up with a par.
Xander comes along and birdies it. Now Xander ain't short but he's not as long as Bryson at the moment.
Bt the bigger thing...Bryson hit something like 45% of fairways but nearly 80% of greens...
It's too easy to hit the green from the rough....that's where they need to focus.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But has tennis improved as a spectacle? Imo it hasn't as now all the players are great returners (and runners) but big servers rarely win. Federer excluded who isn't exactly a huge hitter, but has realised he needs to win points quickly.

The era that clinched it for tennis was Sampras, Ivanovic et al. As deadly dull, at Wimbledon definitely, as tennis has ever been. It was an ace fest on speedy surfaces, it could be very one dimensional. Tennis is not something I particularly watch but a Federer / Djokovic match beats anything that the big servers used to deliver. I would say that tennis is much better for the toning down of the serve, players have to be far more rounded.

 

[Crow]

I like the way this is all focused on the Pro/Elite amateur, saying it's just become about distance for them, technology and forgiveness has made it one dimensional etc.

But the same is true for club golf.

While Pros play on 7,500 yard courses, we play on 6,300 or thereabouts, we also swing out of our socks with the driver knowing that as long as we hit the face somewhere then we're likely to be okay.
Pro - 475 yard par 4, 320 yard drive, leaves a 9 iron or less in.
Club golfer - 380 yard par 4, 240 yard drive, leaves a 9 iron or less in.

 

[Imurg]

we also swing out of our socks with the driver knowing that as long as we hit the face somewhere then we're likely to be okay..

You, obviously, haven't played with Fragger for a long time................

 

[Papas1982]

The era that clinched it for tennis was Sampras, Ivanovic et al. As deadly dull, at Wimbledon definitely, as tennis has ever been. It was an ace fest on speedy surfaces, it could be very one dimensional. Tennis is not something I particularly watch but a Federer / Djokovic match beats anything that the big servers used to deliver. I would say that tennis is much better for the toning down of the serve, players have to be far more rounded.

For me the sweet spot was actually when the likes of Agassi and Hewitt were on the scene and both skill sets were able to compete. Whilst tennis may appear to be more appealing to watch, it doesn't have more variety imo.

Imo the top players now could all do what Bryson has done, if they don't then they can spend more time practising with 6 irons and up to level the playing field. I certainly don't think any pros (long or shorter hitters) will really want limited balls.

 

[GB72]

I guess as well that big drives are good for the golf industry. Every manufacturer wants a player who booms it 350 yards plus using their driver. It is good for the player as it increases sponsorship, it is good for manufacturers who then market that club to us as the latest thing that will add yards etc. There are so many vested interests in keeping the ball going as far as possible off the tee that change is unlikely. Whether you change the ball or the club, you then cannot sell it as being what the pros use (albeit that the pro clubs bear no resemblance to what we buy off the shelf) and it is hardly the same advertising a club that Rory hits 280 yards due to ball changes rather than the club that Rory hits 350 yards.

In fact, from a marketing point of view, there really is no benefit to golfers playing challenging golf. Big drives, spinning wedges and double figure scores under par sell clubs. Skillful plotting round the course, quality safe play from the rough to get back on the fairway and scores over par do not.

 

[Diamond]

Terrible idea.

Oh I agree with you.

 

[MrGrumtastic]

Is there anything to stop a particular tournament forcing the entrants to use a particular type of ball?

That way it would be course specific rather than a blanket rule. If the organisers feel bombers will have it too easy, just say everyone has to use the balls provided, rather than extending the course or messing with bunker positions.

Other venues with plenty of space could carry on as normal, with the 350+ drives marketing drivers and balls as much as ever. In fact this might even sell more balls when you can see the difference they make from one week to the next.

 

[USER1999]

I was chatting to an ex European tour pro today, who hits it miles himself. He watched some of the golf, and has played the course. He turned it off, as in his view, the distances, and the game they were playing has rendered a once lovely test of golf into a pitch and putt.
His answer? A more spinny golf ball, and a much less forgiving driver, so that non centre strikes are more severely punished. Not an 80% ball, one that can still get out there, but only if you are good enough to take the spin off, and find the sweet spot.

 

[jim8flog]

Last sentence is spot on.

Interesting when the pro's were moaning about 17th at St Andrews being lengthened for 2010 Open and it been pointed out the holes length had not changed since 1900.

Must have been brutal in those days, even more recently as 1984 when Seve was hitting a 2 iron second shot on this hole in his battle with Tom Watson.

More recently the hole had become an iron of the tee and mid to short iron approach.
.

Up to until the 50s/60s (at the latest I know of) it was a par 5

 

[sunshine]

Don't think I have said what you are saying above.

There are not many sports were they change the size of the arena or park or court or pitch, to suit the better sports people and technology we have now....sure there must be an example other than golf, but struggling to think of one at the moment. I can think of sports that have changed the equipment tho(partly golf).

Have a think about that and if you think of any, would be interested to hear.

All the best, have fun. As don't really have anything more to add tbh

The javelin is an interesting parallel. Athletes were at the point where they were able to throw it the length of the field, just natural sporting evolution of strength / technique. Like golf, the world's best were outgrowing the arena, so they changed the aerodynamics of the javelin. Maybe we should do the same with the golf ball. Golf limited the COR and also groove rules so there is precedent with curbing technology. The key thing is that any changes should apply to amateurs and pros - I'm not a fan of having a separate pro ball.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So where do we go? Do we go down the bifurcation route and have specialised equipment for the pros so their drivers are smaller and the balls spin more so anything with sidespin is more punished. Do the host clubs allow the rough to grow in the revised landing zones so if a pro does go for the big shot and is out they're punished. Do we also find a way to reduce the irons in line with the drivers? Clearly for the club golfer we need as much help as possible but will manufacturers really want to do all the R&R on new gear specifically for the pros knowing there is no market to sell to the sucker public. Can they then afford R&R on new gear for the club golfers. On the plus side, would that also lead to a reduction in the number of releases especially in the driver section?