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Deleted member 3432
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Its all they can do these days which is a little one dimensional in my eyes, put all the flags on the edge of the green and make the greens quick.
Different balls for the pros
- Thread starter jim8flog
- Start date
Its all they can do these days which is a little one dimensional in my eyes, put all the flags on the edge of the green and make the greens quick.
sunshine
Well-known member
The chart takes an upturn in 1994. In 1993, Bernhard Langer was the last player to win a major with a wooden driver. In 92, all the players were still using wooden drivers, 1993 was the transition year and then 1994 boom!
The chart then shows a levelling off in 2006, when the USGA / R&A brought in new rules to limit the COR (trampoline effect of driver faces).
The increases in the last 5 years I would say are more to do with better fitting to optimise distance (club and ball fitting), and technically better players who are more athletic and are able to use feedback from trackman etc to tweak their swing.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Graphite shafts
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I would have thought around the early 90's everyone swapped to metal headed drivers which would have had an instant increase on distance and then Titleist introduced the Pro V and players moved away from balata which again will have helped add some distance.
You dont make a strong case for your claim though.
Dan2501
Tour Winner
Big boy Bryson's playing well, but big hitters McIlroy, Day, Wolff and List are either trailing or level with Bernhard Langer this week, and he's also beating young stars like Schauffele, Im, Morikawa and Wise. If they pick the right courses they can still test the top players and bring in to play the shorter hitters. Other than Bryson, the leaderboard this week isn't littered with big hitters. Course set-up and selection can play as big a factor as bifurcation.
Crow
Crow Person
The first metal drivers were produced back in the days of hickory but were aluminium and never caught on.
Metal drivers in the modern game appeared in the late 1970s, but these were steel heads and didn't have a massive impact because the heads were still small, in fact they were often smaller than persimmon due to the weight, see pic below of a persimmon driver, an early Titleist steel head driver and a Titleist 909.
The step change with woods came when Mizuno introduced titanium in 1990 which was lighter and stronger and head sizes started to expand.
The R&A and USGA stepped in to limit head size but by now 460cc heads were regularly appearing so they chickened out and made that the limit.
The Pro V1 appeared in 2000 and since then it's been a matter of optimising player and equipment within the limits set by the R&A and the USGA, who obviously couldn't foresee the impact of this fine tuning.
Metal drivers in the modern game appeared in the late 1970s, but these were steel heads and didn't have a massive impact because the heads were still small, in fact they were often smaller than persimmon due to the weight, see pic below of a persimmon driver, an early Titleist steel head driver and a Titleist 909.
The step change with woods came when Mizuno introduced titanium in 1990 which was lighter and stronger and head sizes started to expand.
The R&A and USGA stepped in to limit head size but by now 460cc heads were regularly appearing so they chickened out and made that the limit.
The Pro V1 appeared in 2000 and since then it's been a matter of optimising player and equipment within the limits set by the R&A and the USGA, who obviously couldn't foresee the impact of this fine tuning.
The equipment and the fitness/strength elements arent mutually exclusive though. It big face, forgiving metal driver, opened the door to the muscle building smash it brigade. Strength always mattered, but consistent, and average distance, as distinct from the single big hit, benefitted from the well timed, precision strike on a small wooden driver head. So skill led to distance, to a greater degree than raw strength. The gain in speed that strongman smashing brought did not pay off overall in those days, where slightly off sweetspot hits, paid a high distance and accuracy penalty. The metal sweet spot though, brought swing hard, and even an imperfect hit will still outdistance a more consistent slower one. Long John was the first prominent golfer to show this new world. It was spectacular at the time, but the standards and history that prevailed. But over the last 30 years, overall, to the detrimnent of golf.
There is no benefit in have a slower ball for pros only, and the present one for the rest of the world. A slower ball would address a lot of the problem.
Another solution option, is to ban metal woods.
Which can equally be seen the other way around : the 'top players' are only so because the courses that are mainly played, suit them. If the majority of tour golf were played on the like of this - a perfectly legitimate high level golf course - then would a different group of players be the 'top players'.
And therein lies the problem with this power game - it should not be that long wins. We are talking about the top 200 players in the world here, and there should not be such a divide in who can thrive depending on the design of the course (its a bit turbo/natural for those remembering that F1 era). There are different ways to play the game of golf, which previously used to coexist and compete together. It is now skewed too much towards one dominating strategy. And the poorer for it.
No, bigger driver sweetspots, and no longer having to trade ball distance to get spin.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
No need to ban metal woods, just reduce the cc, reduce the MOI, reduce the shaft flex (so no triple X), and introduce a more spinny ball (like a balata). Sorted.
But....
You would have to do the same for fairways, ban hybrids, multimetal hollow driving irons, and make irons one piece forged.
Whilst they are at it, ban putters over 35", wedges over 56', and go to 10 clubs.
It would be easy to fix golf.
But....
You would have to do the same for fairways, ban hybrids, multimetal hollow driving irons, and make irons one piece forged.
Whilst they are at it, ban putters over 35", wedges over 56', and go to 10 clubs.
It would be easy to fix golf.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
It will be interesting following Bryson's progress, he's a thinker so although he's turned into bomber potential I think he won't have the typical bomb everything mindset. Not sure for how many years he'll cope with the body changes though.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
In the early nineties driver heads for wooden clubs were not that much different to those of steel headed clubs
e.g The Great Big Bertha from around that time was only a 253 cc head.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I had one of the early metal heads, Northwestern, probably some sort of alloy, I had to be really careful with it because the head was so soft that if it banged against a iron instant dent in the face.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
I wouldn't be too fussed about watching golf by being on the Course myself.
I did it once and it was OK but tiring, for what you got from it., dashing about etc.OK, you could sit in a stand , but that gets boring.
However, I love watching golf on the Telly. Different all together, is that.
Diamond
Active member
Just watching the PGA tour on Sky Sports. All the drives are around 300 yards give or take. However I am surprised the amount of drives that do not hit the fairway. (as I write this Fowlers 3 ball all hit the fairway ?).
Maybe knee high length for all rough would make accuracy more important than length.
Maybe knee high length for all rough would make accuracy more important than length.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
It is a common misconception that big hitting pro's don't hit it straight. They do.
Diamond
Active member
I am surprised how many don’t. I would expect them to hit every fairway.
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
remember walking Woburn for 36 holes open qualifying and think there was only one time where there was a proper "search" for a ball, and that was someone hitting a big hook for their 2nd to a par 5
at that level most of the guys were hitting 280ish but their misses were negligible round a course I always find tight and punishing, very much about managing the ones they do miss so that they dont cause real damage unlike most of us whose misses can be a lot lot wider
Diamond
Active member
Just looking at the stat for PGA. Jim Furyk is number 1 for accuracy with 77% of fairways hit. His average length is 280 yards. The biggest driver is Cameron Champ with an average of 320 yards but his accuracy is 57%.
it may be that they are 5 yards in the rough and not 50 yards however if they are penalised more for not hitting the fairway then accuracy becomes King rather then distance and holes play longer for them...unless they take a gamble.
it may be that they are 5 yards in the rough and not 50 yards however if they are penalised more for not hitting the fairway then accuracy becomes King rather then distance and holes play longer for them...unless they take a gamble.
