Diego

sunshine said:
I remember having a chat with some mates in Spain about goalkeepers. They considered England as being famous for having terrible goalkeepers... it surprised me but when I tried to argue I realised they were right. Especially when they reeled off the quality Spanish keepers.

Shilton may have been decent in the 80s, but he was still England keeper in 1990 when he was way over the hill - who was challenging him? We then had David James, Woods, Martyn, etc who were all average. Seaman came in but he was solid rather than outstanding (remember Ronaldinho's lob?). Since then we've had a series of keepers who look good but then turn out to be liabilities. England hasn't had a world class keeper for over 30 years.
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Unfair on Seaman, he was an excellent keeper in his prime. It was a similar story to what you just said about Shilton, he had to play on well into his advancing years due to nobody really challenging him for a place. He was 39 when Ronaldinho scored that lucky free kick past him! He only got a couple more caps after that.
 
sunshine said:
I remember having a chat with some mates in Spain about goalkeepers. They considered England as being famous for having terrible goalkeepers... it surprised me but when I tried to argue I realised they were right. Especially when they reeled off the quality Spanish keepers.

Shilton may have been decent in the 80s, but he was still England keeper in 1990 when he was way over the hill - who was challenging him? We then had David James, Woods, Martyn, etc who were all average. Seaman came in but he was solid rather than outstanding (remember Ronaldinho's lob?). Since then we've had a series of keepers who look good but then turn out to be liabilities. England hasn't had a world class keeper for over 30 years.
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I think from the sixties to the end of the century, we were fine in that department. Banks, Shilton, Clemence, Seaman were all solid and that's all you need from a keeper really - Brazil have never been famed for their keepers really, yet have dominated the World Cup. Germany with Kahn as no.1 didn't win a tournament despite him being brilliant.

Seaman had apparently 1 real flaw of getting lobbed from a silly distance, but I only think it happened twice (Ronaldinho and the Cup Winners Cup final against a name that escapes me) and over the course of a long career, you'll accept that.

So personally, whilst I think we have been crap there for 20 years, I think we were pretty good before that.

When it comes to keepers in general, I think far too much emphasis is now put on being a 'sweeper keeper.' Given the choice between a big, brilliant shot stopper, who has real command of his defence and can claim aerial balls for fun; versus someone who is average in those departments but can control the ball like Xavi, then give me the latter all day long. Being good with your feet should be seen as bonus imo, and not a must have. This is for me where you will find Pickford...

One other poor England keeper I forgot to mention - Robert Green.
 
The sporting world is rife with cheats, and football probably has more than its fair share. Of all the 'cheats', Diego Maradona was perhaps the one who least needed to, because his sublime talent would defeat teams far superior to that England outfit without resorting to anything underhand.
 
As an (English) 11 year old kid back in 1986 Maradona broke my heart in "that" moment but looking back, I wouldn't want to change it. In the run-up to the '86 World Cup, there were only three things that gave a kid any standing out on the rec'; a Gunn & Moore cricket bat, a Raleigh Burner, or the ownership of a Maradona Panini card. Every single one of us would have traded the entire England squad of stickers for that single card in a heartbeat. We all tried to be him as we dribbled our way towards the inevitable shame that only a ball-hogging exhibition of fluffed tekkers can bring. He was THE BEST, the greatest player alive and of all time, and if you'd have asked any of us who we wanted to win the World Cup we would have said Maradona, not England or Brazil or Germany or Argentina, just him. On his own, he should win the World Cup. Kids eh? They're brilliantly naive and yet somehow razor sharp.

I think I wanted to be like Maradona more than most of my mates. Like him I was (am) a short arse and all I wanted to do was play football but I couldn't, I was born with a deformed foot. It wasn't until after a few operations and a lot of painful physio between '83 and '85 that I was able to put a pair of boots on for the first time and join my pals for a real game of football. The physio at that time asked me what position I wanted to play, "Number 10, like Maradona" was my immediate response, betraying everything I'd promised my family about wanting to play for Everton. It's crazy looking back, I don't know how we got to learn about him, he wasn't on the TV, you couldn't just watch him play every week. There was just this shared knowledge and lore of him playing in Espana '82 and the Panini Album hand-me-downs that got passed on from elder brothers and the photographs that just oozed his godlike presence and prowess on the ball. There was an occasional playing of a very fuzzy VHS recording around someone's house if we were lucky. Maradona was the greatest player so of course we all wanted to play like him.

I don't remember much of the early tournament but of course we cheered for England and eventually that game... The hero revealed his true form as a villain. I couldn't comprehend it. How could he do it? How can the best footballer in the world be a cheat? Why were my parents screaming at the TV willing the entire England team on to break his legs? My eleven year old brain couldn't deal with this conflict. "He's the best, do I have to hate him now?"

I never lost the admiration of him as the most talented and skilled player but I lost respect in him as a role model. I also lost some respect in my parents in a way I wouldn't understand until later in life when I latched on to another foreign hero in the form of Ayrton Senna. The day he died devastated me but that's another story.

I've forgotten what I was trying to say. I guess my point is every drama needs a villain and Shakespeare couldn't have written Maradona any better. Legend of a man.
 
Great post Jimaroid. Some amazing nostalgia there!

We're from the same generation, but in the playground in 1986 we were Rush and Barnes, Lineker, Hughes, Hoddle and Waddle. The keeper was either Shilton or Grobelaar. English clubs were banned from Europe, the only football on tv was division one and England internationals so our sources for heroes were limited. Sure, we'd heard of Maradona but nobody had seen him play. It's amazing that his skills inspired you even though it was really just word of mouth, shows the status he achieved. I don't really remember much of the 86 world cup, but I do clearly remember the outrage the day after England went out, it's all anyone could talk about at school, on tv and radio.

And your other points...
- At my school the coolest cricket bat was a Slazenger V12 - I had one - and the Liverpool home shirt with Crown Paints was the most popular in the park.
- I remember the Raleigh Burner well, but it was a popular bike and where I lived the kudos went to those with a Mongoose or Diamond Back. I had a black Giant BMX with yellow mag wheels.
 
Jensen said:
Personally think Clemence was made to look better due to the defence in front of him. He was a very good keeper, but Shilton was far superior.
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When Shilton joined Forest it had a very similar effect upon them as VVD joining Liverpool.
 
sunshine said:
Great post Jimaroid. Some amazing nostalgia there!

We're from the same generation, but in the playground in 1986 we were Rush and Barnes, Lineker, Hughes, Hoddle and Waddle.
Click to expand...

I omitted a lot of other details that came flooding back to me to be honest. Lineker was obviously a hero to me then too but the unwritten rules of the playground prevented me from admitting to liking a Liverpool player even though I was intensely envious of how good they were.

Good call on the Slazenger V12, I was trying to remember that one, it was the bat we used on the tarmac wicket at school and it got absolutely wrecked. I had my first proper first fight with a guy holding that bat. Got him with a nice right hook before realising what a stupid idea it was to punch someone holding a cricket bat.
 
Jimaroid said:
I omitted a lot of other details that came flooding back to me to be honest. Lineker was obviously a hero to me then too but the unwritten rules of the playground prevented me from admitting to liking a Liverpool player even though I was intensely envious of how good they were.

Good call on the Slazenger V12, I was trying to remember that one, it was the bat we used on the tarmac wicket at school and it got absolutely wrecked. I had my first proper first fight with a guy holding that bat. Got him with a nice right hook before realising what a stupid idea it was to punch someone holding a cricket bat.
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The middle on a V12 was insane. Total sloggers bat! I had a very nice V500. Nicely balanced.
 
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