Declaring a Ball lost

Crazyface

Crazyface

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So, on Sunday, I was playing with three lads I've played with before and had a great time. This time though I was struggling a bit, tired after my Eurovision Party. So on the 9th tee, after watching one lad lazer a ball at the flag, 357 off whites and fall short, it was me to go. I put a very tired swing at the ball and flicked it about 20 yards into deep rough and bramble. But I'd got a line and could actually see it. As I walked towards where my ball was keeping watch on exactly where it was so not to lose the line, there came the words "You can delcare it lost" :mmm:
This was from all three players.
1. A bloke who's been playing 40 years or more off 12.
2. His son playing off 6 and plays in one of the teams.
3. His sons cousin off 5 ditto 2.

I was just too tired to explain the whole thing to them.
I'm thinking we should have a rules evening as over my time at the club I've come across so many rules people don't know or are making up. :mmm:
 
Crazyface said:
So, on Sunday, I was playing with three lads I've played with before and had a great time. This time though I was struggling a bit, tired after my Eurovision Party. So on the 9th tee, after watching one lad lazer a ball at the flag, 357 off whites and fall short, it was me to go. I put a very tired swing at the ball and flicked it about 20 yards into deep rough and bramble. But I'd got a line and could actually see it. As I walked towards where my ball was keeping watch on exactly where it was so not to lose the line, there came the words "You can delcare it lost" :mmm:
This was from all three players.
1. A bloke who's been playing 40 years or more off 12.
2. His son playing off 6 and plays in one of the teams.
3. His sons cousin off 5 ditto 2.

I was just too tired to explain the whole thing to them.
I'm thinking we should have a rules evening as over my time at the club I've come across so many rules people don't know or are making up. :mmm:
Click to expand...

We had a rules evening and the "expert" running it got one so horribly wrong it was laughable!
 
Crazyface said:
Yes, but you cannot "declare a ball lost".
Click to expand...

Why not? Do you suddenly lose the ability to utter those words?

Of course you can 'declare a ball lost'!

It's just that those words have no meaning as far as The Rules of Golf are concerned! The ball is either 'Lost' or 'Not Lost' and no 'declaration' is going to change its status - though the player's action can!

I'm almost certain that what the other players meant was '... proceed under penalty of stroke and distance' or '.... proceed as per 27-1a'.

A little pedantic perhaps, but, in this case (at least to me), 'declaring a ball lost so proceeding under stroke and distance' is not such a 'crime' and doesn't cause the issues that can arise (ie finding it within the 5 mins and before another ball is put into play) as doing so after searching for it for a short time, then making the declaration.

I would have (and have done so in the past) simply said 'there is no concept of declaring a ball lost in The Rules, but I know what you mean' and proceeded to put another ball in play, thus making the original ball 'lost'! Had anyone asked, I'd have stated 'I'll show you later', in you case, probably prefixing that with 'I can't be bothered/I'm too tired to do so at the moment but...'. Having made a stroke at the 2nd ball, I'd have stated 'That first ball is now lost!'. If anyone questioned that (or referred to it as 'declaring the original lost') then I would have stated that it was my Action, not my Statement/Declaration that changed the status of the original ball!
 
Not in this case I'm afraid. If a ball is visible in the area where it presumably is as in this case you are obliged to identify it. If it's the player's ball it's back in play. yopu would have to hit the second ball off the tee before 'spotting the ball in the rough'.
 
AlanMills said:
Not in this case I'm afraid. If a ball is visible in the area where it presumably is as in this case you are obliged to identify it. If it's the player's ball it's back in play. yopu would have to hit the second ball off the tee before 'spotting the ball in the rough'.
Click to expand...

Eh? You quite entitled at any time to proceed under penalty of stroke and distance whether you have identified the ball and it's "back in play" or not
 
I often declare a ball lost. I sometimes declare one to be as finely struck as I can possibly manage, and sometimes declare one to be, to paraphrase, an ungrateful ball of uncertain parentage.

You can render a ball (effectively) lost, though by taking action which puts a new ball in play, by failing to declare a provisional properly, playing another ball from closer to the hole and so on.
 
AlanMills said:
Not in this case I'm afraid. If a ball is visible in the area where it presumably is as in this case you are obliged to identify it. If it's the player's ball it's back in play. yopu would have to hit the second ball off the tee before 'spotting the ball in the rough'.
Click to expand...

This would only be the case if he'd hit a provisional. It eliminates the possibility of having choice depending on what you find. If you go back to the tee and play another (regardless of the status of the original - it could be sitting on the fairway) then the ball so played becomes the ball in play.
 
At any point you can declare a ball 'unplayable' so in this case the player can see his ball in the rough, declares it unplayable and plays 3 off the tee. job done!
 
AlanMills said:
Not in this case I'm afraid. If a ball is visible in the area where it presumably is as in this case you are obliged to identify it. If it's the player's ball it's back in play. yopu would have to hit the second ball off the tee before 'spotting the ball in the rough'.
Click to expand...
Er...No!

Here's the text of 27-1a.... Note the first 3 words of the text (that I have made bold)!

27-1. Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance
At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.

Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance.
 
Ethan said:
I often declare a ball lost. I sometimes declare one to be as finely struck as I can possibly manage, and sometimes declare one to be, to paraphrase, an ungrateful ball of uncertain parentage.

You can render a ball (effectively) lost, though by taking action which puts a new ball in play, by failing to declare a provisional properly, playing another ball from closer to the hole and so on.
Click to expand...

Much more succinctly put than my, somewhat rambling, post 8!

However, the bold bit should be 'You can render a ball lost (according to the Rules of Golf)'.... It is critical that the difference between physically (or even 'declared'!) lost and 'lost according to The Rules of Golf' contexts is made. After all, in a binary context 1+1=10! And it's possible to be standing beside 2 balls, hit only 30 seconds ago, that are both 'lost according to The Rules of Golf'!
 
Foxholer said:
Much more succinctly put than my, somewhat rambling, post 8!

However, the bold bit should be 'You can render a ball lost (according to the Rules of Golf)'.... It is critical that the difference between physically (or even 'declared'!) lost and 'lost according to The Rules of Golf' contexts is made. After all, in a binary context 1+1=10! And it's possible to be standing beside 2 balls, hit only 30 seconds ago, that are both 'lost according to The Rules of Golf'!
Click to expand...

'Lost' can be both a physical and metaphysical concept, but the two need not co-exist.
 
TerryA said:
At any point you can declare a ball 'unplayable' so in this case the player can see his ball in the rough, declares it unplayable and plays 3 off the tee. job done!
Click to expand...

You don't even have to declare it unplayable. If you so choose, you can just have another go - just put down another ball and play it. As long as you don't declare it a provisional, away you go (remembering to add stroke & distance of course)
 
Foxholer said:
I'm almost certain that what the other players meant was '... proceed under penalty of stroke and distance' or '.... proceed as per 27-1a'.
Click to expand...

But that's not what they said.. If we can proceed based on what we are "almost certain" the others meant the rules have no importance. :D
 
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