CSS calculation doesn't work

[guest100718]

Correct
Because CSS has nothing ,directly, to do with weather conditions or "how hard the course is playing", it is solely down to how well or badly people play on the day - which may, or may not, be attributable to the weather/course conditions.

does your new CSS change much?

 

[Maninblack4612]

I don't understand why you are laying the blame for everything that happens on high handicappers. I have the different view that the higher handicapper does not have the skill and ability to cope with bad conditions. I would be interested to see an analysis of the handicaps of the 20% or so who buffered or better.

Because when there are no high handicappers in the competition the CSS is normally higher i.e.more realistic

 

[Maninblack4612]

Correct
Because CSS has nothing ,directly, to do with weather conditions or "how hard the course is playing", it is solely down to how well or badly people play on the day - which may, or may not, be attributable to the weather/course conditions.

Oh, come on! It's got everything to do with weather conditions or "how hard the course is playing" That's the main thing which affects how well people play, unless the entire field have a mass hangover.

 

[Imurg]

does your new CSS change much?

Just checked HDID and it's all over the place...SSS is 73(whites), 72(yellows) and CSS has gone down 1 several times, stayed level several times and been as high as 76 this year.

 

[fundy]

Correct
Because CSS has nothing ,directly, to do with weather conditions or "how hard the course is playing", it is solely down to how well or badly people play on the day - which may, or may not, be attributable to the weather/course conditions.

mmmm, popcorn

 

[Three]

Because when there are no high handicappers in the competition the CSS is normally higher i.e.more realistic

I've already backed you up and this is the last time 😃

What you are saying is exactly true, the high handicappers significantly lower the CSS so its much more difficult for the low handicappers to get down.

Everyone thinks they're an expert, however none of them have been through the range of handicaps and experienced this, the ones that have don't bother with forums.

You are 100% spot on.

 

[bladeplayer]

I've already backed you up and this is the last time 

What you are saying is exactly true, the high handicappers significantly lower the CSS so its much more difficult for the low handicappers to get down.

Everyone thinks they're an expert, however none of them have been through the range of handicaps and experienced this, the ones that have don't bother with forums.

You are 100% spot on.

..
Ive always blamed the sss in our place sss of 70 par 72

Ive always asked how its easier to get cut in junior/scratch cups than an ordinary comp if the mid to high handicaps arent the bigger influence on css ..

 

[patricks148]

..
Ive always blamed the sss in our place sss of 70 par 72

Ive always asked how its easier to get cut in junior/scratch cups than an ordinary comp if the mid to high handicaps arent the bigger influence on css ..

but by definition if the SSS is 2 under its an easy course to score for a scratch golfer?

 

[Maninblack4612]

but by definition if the SSS is 2 under its an easy course to score for a scratch golfer?

And for the average golfer. It indicates that a lot of the holes are comparatively short & easier for shorter hitters to reach & therefore easier to par.

 

[patricks148]

And for the average golfer. It indicates that a lot of the holes are comparatively short & easier for shorter hitters to reach & therefore easier to par.

so an easier course then?

which will reflect in the scoring, hence the css being lower

 

[Region3]

how does css go to +6 in one round then?

Maybe SSS = Par + 3?

 

[Region3]

Because when there are no high handicappers in the competition the CSS is normally higher i.e.more realistic

Just playing devil's advocate, maybe the scratch event CSS usually goes up because field has a lot of players that don't have accurate handicaps because they don't play club comps in case they go up 0.1

I've played in opens where the conditions have been fine and been surprised at how much CSS has gone up by, it's like a free shot at a cut sometimes having an effective buffer zone of 3 or 4.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Due to small field sizes, the women's css at my club always uses the small field calculation and that really doesn't work!

 

[Foxholer]

Just playing devil's advocate, maybe the scratch event CSS usually goes up because field has a lot of players that don't have accurate handicaps because they don't play club comps in case they go up 0.1

I've played in opens where the conditions have been fine and been surprised at how much CSS has gone up by, it's like a free shot at a cut sometimes having an effective buffer zone of 3 or 4.

I agree!

Those that 'protect' their handicap in this way are doing the entire field a dis-service!

 

[Maninblack4612]

I agree!

Those that 'protect' their handicap in this way are doing the entire field a dis-service!

Possibly, but not always. My mate, mentioned in the OP, last week won the best net in a Scottish Open seniors event, in which there were lots of players off low & plus handicaps. He won't play in club comps not because he can't play to his handicap but because he thinks the CSS calculation is unfair. He got cut .7 as a result of this win & the high CSS. At home he would have probably buffered.

 

[patricks148]

Possibly, but not always. My mate, mentioned in the OP, last week won the best net in a Scottish Open seniors event, in which there were lots of players off low & plus handicaps. He won't play in club comps not because he can't play to his handicap but because he thinks the CSS calculation is unfair. He got cut .7 as a result of this win & the high CSS. At home he would have probably buffered.

What course was this open at ?

could have been it was a difficult course with a higher SSS than par where as your home club is below par?

 

[Foxholer]

What course was this open at ?

could have been it was a difficult course with a higher SSS than par where as your home club is below par?

Monifieth I believe. Though my dodgy arithmetic only makes it 0.6 reduction.

And yes, comp was on course with SSS > Par whereas home course SSS < Par. Shouldn't matter, but can be more difficult for low cappers where home course is < Par - often simply in the head!

 

[Maninblack4612]

Monifieth I believe. Though my dodgy arithmetic only makes it 0.6 reduction.

And yes, comp was on course with SSS > Par whereas home course SSS < Par. Shouldn't matter, but can be more difficult for low cappers where home course is < Par - often simply in the head!

It was .5 actually. My dodgy memory.

 

[bladeplayer]

but by definition if the SSS is 2 under its an easy course to score for a scratch golfer?

..
..
Hi Patrick sorry was in work , yea i get what u say mate it means as an 8 handicapper i should be able to play to 6 around there , pro course record is damien mc grane ex pro is -6 .. -4 is the ordinary record , 90% of pro's in the pro ams do not brake par ..

We have added trees , we have added bunkers but course not due to be reviewed for a few yrs (seemingly) the rough is very tough , easily lose a ball just off fairway , the greenkeeper has cut fairways in such away he wants ppl hitting it 240 ish any further the fairway is 10-15 feet wide .. the greens are small and pins get put on side of hill or just in a little bowl , the sss is not a fair
reflection of the course in my opinion

 

[patricks148]

..
..
Hi Patrick sorry was in work , yea i get what u say mate it means as an 8 handicapper i should be able to play to 6 around there , pro course record is damien mc grane ex pro is -6 .. -4 is the ordinary record , 90% of pro's in the pro ams do not brake par ..

We have added trees , we have added bunkers but course not due to be reviewed for a few yrs (seemingly) the rough is very tough , easily lose a ball just off fairway , the greenkeeper has cut fairways in such away he wants ppl hitting it 240 ish any further the fairway is 10-15 feet wide .. the greens are small and pins get put on side of hill or just in a little bowl , the sss is not a fair
reflection of the course in my opinion

how do you work out 6? you get a two shot buffer so if its a par 70 SSS 68, so 70 net is to handicap.. if the course was hard it would reflect that in the CSS and it would rise all the time if it was tough and the club could get the SSS re rated?