D
Deleted member 15344
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I wouldn't know why a foot ball is different but I would guess it would be cause of what is striking the football
Correcting a push slic
- Thread starter Alan P Mills
- Start date
I wouldn't know why a foot ball is different but I would guess it would be cause of what is striking the football
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Any ball can only spin one way, how it is struck will determine how much of that spin is 'backspin' and how much is 'sidespin'
If you look at the output from any shot on a trackman style device, you will see both figures quoted when in fact the ball is only spinning in one direction.
If you look at the output from any shot on a trackman style device, you will see both figures quoted when in fact the ball is only spinning in one direction.
chrisd
Major Champion
It has to be the nature of how the strike is performed. A golf club, whether driver or lofted wedge, hits the back of the ball with loft and a descending blow. The variable is the face angle/ attack angle, so a 0 degree putter sets the ball off straight with no backspin - unless I'm wrong!
Beezerk
Money List Winner
I see what you mean mate but the direction of spin on any spherical object/ball is directly related to the direction of the force hitting it.
If you have an out to in swing the force goes kinda right to left across the ball which in turn imparts spin to the right and causes a slice, it's simple physics. There is also an amount of backspin but it's negligible and not part of this argument IMO.
By your logic any golf logic is perfectly straight as you can only put backspin on a ball which to me is complete and utter guff :thup:
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
a driver can be hit with an ascending blow!
[video=youtube;deWBBmss_9g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deWBBmss_9g[/video]
ball spinning forward!
chrisd
Major Champion
My understanding is, as I posted earlier, that the only spin on a golf ball is backspin. Trackman has proved this conclusively. If you have an in to out swing the ball starts in the direction that the club face aims, the move to the left or right is caused by the ball being moved from on a tilting axis, so the backswinging ball tilts left or right and the ball moves in that direction. I believe the reason is what some call the D Plane.
Bob posted earlier that if you swing down a straight line with a club, that's held open, it will go straight in the direction the face aims. If Trackman proves that a golf ball only backspins it stands to reason it can't side spin at the same time as ia ball can only spin in one direction at a time
Please ,any experts, tell me if my understanding is wrong
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Tilting axis to me is a ball with an amount of side spin, it may be spinning backwards at the same time but it's also tending to one side. The steeper the club face the harder they are to control as side spin comes into play a lot more as backspin is reduced.
I agree about club face = direction, that's not in any doubt, my snap hook with a closed face is testament to that lol.
I'd be interested to know how much backspin say a 9 degree driver (hit slightly on the up) puts on the ball, if any at all.
Anyway, isn't D Plane from Fantasy Island? :thup:
I agree about club face = direction, that's not in any doubt, my snap hook with a closed face is testament to that lol.
I'd be interested to know how much backspin say a 9 degree driver (hit slightly on the up) puts on the ball, if any at all.
Anyway, isn't D Plane from Fantasy Island? :thup:
chrisd
Major Champion
I just pulled this table up at random on driver stats
Ball Speed Kmph Verticle Launch Degrees Back Spin rate (RMP)
286. 9.5 to 11 2450 to 2650
272 12 to 13.5. 2750 to 3200
256 12.5 to 14 3000 to 3300
240 13 to 15 3300 to 3550
224 14 to 16 3500 to 3800
208 15 to 17 3750 to 3900
192 15.5 to 17.5 3750 to 3900
176 15.5 to 17.5 3800 to 4050
160 16 to 18.5 3900 to 4200
I hope this goes someway to answering your question
Sorry, it doesn't want to line up when I post stats but you can see the relevant numbers band the various headings. First numbers eg 285 ball speed, 9.5 to 11 launch, 2450 to 2650 back spin rpm
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Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
A ball - any ball - either spins or it doesn't. It can only spin one way, and whichever way that is you could draw a line through the ball as being the axis that it spins around.
For a football bent around a wall I'd imagine that axis would be very nearly vertical meaning that the side spin component is stronger than the back (or forward) spin component.
For a golf ball the axis is closer to horizontal than vertical. 1000rpm of side spin would give quite a lot of movement sideways in the air, but 2500-3000rpm of backspin is what most people should be aiming at with a driver. 6 iron somewhere around 6000rpm and up to 10000rpm with a wedge.
Backspin is what keeps the ball in the air for longer. If you ever manage to hit the ball using a driver with no back spin it won't go very far. The best angle to launch a ball that doesn't create any lift of its own is 45 degrees, and I'd like to see someone try that with a driver!
I've used the words backspin and side spin separately just because it's easier to visualise. What I really mean is those components of the overall spin. If the axis of spin were at 45 degrees the components would be equal.
Disclaimer... It's late and I haven't double checked any of this before I posted. The exact numbers may be wrong but the general principle is there.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
If such a person existed that consistently put more side spin on the ball than backspin I'd put a lot of money on them not being able to break 100.
As you said, all the ball knows is the strength and direction of the force imparted on it. It doesn't know which way is left, right, up or down. There is almost always going to be more loft on the club than the path is off centre, even on a crap swing.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Very interesting reading, it's hard to imagine a driver giving that amount of backspin on a ball given how steep the club face is.
So has the guys slice been cured yet?
So has the guys slice been cured yet?
chrisd
Major Champion
Very interesting reading, it's hard to imagine a driver giving that amount of backspin on a ball given how steep the club face is.
So has the guys slice been cured yet?
Steep it may be but will still have I guess, on average, 10* of loft and may be often hitting incorrectly with more loft. Around 3,000 rpm of backspin is common I'd say and Region 3 is correct to say that it's backspin that keeps the ball airborne. If you do a club fitting they will look at the stats to check that backspin rates are correct for the clubs you might buy.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Just done some sums, and a golf ball launched with no spin at 150mph and 12° will stay in the air for 2.8 seconds.
Using Flightscope's trajectory optimizer ( http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/ ) the same launch but with 3,000rpm of backspin keeps the ball in the air for 6.1s.
Provided it isn't so high that the ball balloons and stalls, backspin is your friend
Using Flightscope's trajectory optimizer ( http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/ ) the same launch but with 3,000rpm of backspin keeps the ball in the air for 6.1s.
Provided it isn't so high that the ball balloons and stalls, backspin is your friend
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
The ball stays in the air longer due to backspin and the dimples on the ball. Anyone interested in how this works look up 'The Magus Effect' It's a similar concept to the way an aircraft wing creates lift.
A golf ball spins on a single axis, if that axis is horizontal the ball will fly straight if not affected by sidewinds (or trees). If the axis tilts down at the left the ball will have 'Draw Spin'. If it tilts down to the right it will have 'Fade Spin'
A golf ball spins on a single axis, if that axis is horizontal the ball will fly straight if not affected by sidewinds (or trees). If the axis tilts down at the left the ball will have 'Draw Spin'. If it tilts down to the right it will have 'Fade Spin'
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
I could mess around all day with that thing
Yeah, it's very good.
If you know your swing speed (and use ball speed = swing speed * 1.5) you can play around to find your optimum launch angle and spin rate. It's a bit of an eye opener how much extra distance some people could get without swinging any faster.
Alan P Mills
Assistant Pro
with my irons I'm pretty much straight with a very slight fade. My bad driver shot is an awful push slice, right and going very right.
Alan P Mills
Assistant Pro
Heh, a simple question I thought, some interesting responses!
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
Sorry for it going off topic a bit
Hopefully you got some useful info before it went off track. Not that my opinion should be trusted, but I would check to make sure your grip hasn't changed slightly without you noticing. Failing that, get somebody to check you're aiming where you think you are, especially your shoulders lining up with the rest of you.
When you're happy those are ok, then start looking at your swing. There are lots of knowledgable people here if you could manage to put a video up.
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
If you're trying to work out what is happening try and think about distance, direction, curvature and trajectory so that would include things like where it starts, finishes, if carry is normal, high, low etc: and it's always worth checking your aim. We often don't align where we think (mine tends to creep right) and it helps to know the position we are starting from to try and figure it out.
So for example is your fade with the irons starting left or right of where you are aiming, how much is a fade, what is total distance like, is it flying on a 'normal' trajectory or a little higher, lower...similarly with your driver what is your actual alignment may be a question worth asking.
