Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[drdel]

Nothing to do with dissenters, it’s the same for any Political Leader regardless of Party or Country etc.

Mine was not a political biased statement. "Dissenters" was simply the term I used to define those whose chose to take and opposing view - in this case whether a PM (currently a Tory) can be held responsible for ALL decisions. there is a difference between responsibility and accountability.

 

[Foxholer]

Genesis 1:1

It always amuses me when I see National Lighting's (a Trading Name) referencing to their 'official' Company Name - Genesis 1:3 Limited.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ceremonially maybe - and I doubt even there. In practice, she is compelled to follow procedure (has no choice) therefore 'the buck' never gets to her - except for a few very specific procedural tasks/situations!

Ziiiiiiiiip !!!!!!! He used the comment to show how silly it is to push the blame for every decision on the PM and to say the buck for every decision stops with him.

 

[drdel]

Ceremonially maybe - and I doubt even there. In practice, she is compelled to follow procedure (has no choice) therefore 'the buck' never gets to her - except for a few very specific procedural tasks/situations!

I realise your driving aim seems to be a desire to be the font of all knowledge and strive to put others down. However, your wrong - UK does not have a written constitution. HRH the Queen is not compelled to do anything and she has not always followed convention. HM Queen is Head of State and 'Opens' Parliamentary Sessions. She invites a PM to run the country on her behalf having allowed the citizens the opportunity to express their opinion.

Anyway, enough of a tangent.

 

[Foxholer]

Ziiiiiiiiip !!!!!!! He used the comment to show how silly it is to push the blame for every decision on the PM and to say the buck for every decision stops with him.

Nobody (except perhaps you) is 'pushing blame' on the PM (well, Government) - merely 'ultimate responsibility'!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Later today Rishi Sunak is going to announce special measures for 18-24yr olds - and that is most welcome - well done chancellor.

However what is to be done for everyone else who has already lost, or will lose, their jobs in the coming months and faced with long term unemployment.

All of these newly unemployed will have to rely upon Universal Credit whilst they look for a job - which is of course what we expect all on UC to be doing. But UC is not enough to live on - far from it - and maybe deliberately so to encourage those claiming it to get a job.

But in the current economic circumstances and a climate of huge redundancies and many more to come when the furlough scheme changes 1st August and employees have to part fund the furlough of employees - getting a new job is going to be extremely difficult - no matter how hard any individual might try.

So what happens to and for those on UC with no savings to draw upon (and that is going to be most of the lower paid) to keep their heads above water? It is very difficult.

And yes - I have a personal interest in what the chancellor might do as both my son and his partner are now unemployed with no income and no savings. But they are just an example of the situation that many will face.

Their UC is £1069/month and they would get £94 towards their council tax bill of £105/month - currently on hold but building up and will have to be paid (with no income difficult to see how he fills the gap - anyway). Their rent takes ~50% of their UC. Assuming £30/month power and gas. Water - £35/month; £20/month to Council Tax.

That leaves about £450/month for all other expenditure - about £105/week. Food, drink, clothes, toiletries, household essentials, broadband - running a car or public transport...repayment of council tax owed..£105/week.

If he has paid enough NI over the last two years he'd get a further £100 a month through JSA - but doubt he has as his income has been below the NI threshold much of the time over the last two years.

Not much room for living there. But that's just simply the bare facts of living on UC - and what very many will be faced with...OK for a short time whilst loking for a new job - but not much fun for the longer term...

So what could/should the Chancellor do?

 

[SocketRocket]

Nobody (except perhaps you) is 'pushing blame' on the PM (well, Government) - merely 'ultimate responsibility'!

You must be reading a different thread.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Mine was not a political biased statement. "Dissenters" was simply the term I used to define those whose chose to take and opposing view - in this case whether a PM (currently a Tory) can be held responsible for ALL decisions. there is a difference between responsibility and accountability.

Your comment may not of been, but as we are on a political thread and the discussion was about decisions that affect thousands of lives.

A PM is ultimately responsible/accountable (Yes I understand the difference) for the actions of their appointed Ministers.

Nobody was saying or attempting to say a PM is responsible for a Clerk buying the wrong coffee for the machine.

Dragging it to that level to prove a point is deflection.

 

[Foxholer]

I realise your driving aim seems to be a desire to be the font of all knowledge and strive to put others down...

More twaddle!

Btw. While I agree that much of The Queen is not 'required' to act in a particular way, she has always acted 'by convention' on important matters - like Royal Assent (not denied since 1708) or how Governments are 'invited to be formed'! If you have an example of an important 'breach of convention' by her, please enlighten me/us.

 

[SocketRocket]

Later today Rishi Sunak is going to announce special measures for 18-24yr olds - and that is most welcome - well done chancellor.

However what is to be done for everyone else who has already lost, or will lose, their jobs in the coming months and faced with long term unemployment.

All of these newly unemployed will have to rely upon Universal Credit whilst they look for a job - which is of course what we expect all on UC to be doing. But UC is not enough to live on - far from it - and maybe deliberately so to encourage those claiming it to get a job.

But in the current economic circumstances and a climate of huge redundancies and many more to come when the furlough scheme changes 1st August and employees have to part fund the furlough of employees - getting a new job is going to be extremely difficult - no matter how hard any individual might try.

So what happens to and for those on UC with no savings to draw upon (and that is going to be most of the lower paid) to keep their heads above water? It is very difficult.

And yes - I have a personal interest in what the chancellor might do as both my son and his partner are now unemployed with no income and no savings. But they are just an example of the situation that many will face.

Their UC is £1069/month and they would get £94 towards their council tax bill of £105/month - currently on hold but building up and will have to be paid (with no income difficult to see how he fills the gap - anyway). Their rent takes ~50% of their UC. Assuming £30/month power and gas. Water - £35/month; £20/month to Council Tax.

That leaves about £450/month for all other expenditure - about £105/week. Food, drink, clothes, toiletries, household essentials, broadband - running a car or public transport...repayment of council tax owed..£105/week.

If he has paid enough NI over the last two years he'd get a further £100 a month through JSA - but doubt he has as his income has been below the NI threshold much of the time over the last two years.

Not much room for living there. But that's just simply the bare facts of living on UC - and what very many will be faced with...OK for a short time whilst loking for a new job - but not much fun for the longer term...

So what could/should the Chancellor do?

Wave a magic wand?
Your Son and his partner need to get up and be realistic about finding work, there is still some out there and if they're on UC it has a taper system as its removed when you work. They dont seem to have children so they are only responsible for themselves.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Wave a magic wand?
Your Son and his partner need to get up and be realistic about finding work, there is still some out there and if they're on UC it has a taper system as its removed when you work. They dont seem to have children so they are only responsible for themselves.

Thought that might be the sort of response I'd get from some. As it happens my son is 'getting out there looking' and his partner is under 25 so hopefully will be able to benefit from what Sunak comes up with this afternoon. And i repeat - well done Sunak on recognising the problems that age group face in seeking work - even though there is still some out there.

Sunak is indeed 'waving a magic wand' for that age group - as he has done for the employed over the last 3 months. Sunak has a magic wand - he can do whatever he wants to do if he decides to do it,

But so predictable and so easy to say isn't it - the old and apparently still the Tory way - 'they should take responsibility for themselves' - as Tebbit said, 'get on their bike' - easy to say when you are not having to live off £112/week as you hunt; whist jobs are disappearing out of the door in great numbers, and the number looking for new work is growing massively.

So that's it then. All those on amounts such as £112/week to live on will just have to 'suck it up' and get on with looking for work. There is still some out there...apparently. Oh yes. So easy to say. But it is said. Tough.

I note - that given the circumstances we will not allow our son to get mired in the misery, despair and depression that comes from having to live off that amount of money for any significant period of time as they look for work. His circumstances are not of his making. We will help him out as he looks.

But there are many hundreds of thousands out there who will not be so fortunate. And that is more to the point I am highlighting in respect of UC. You can only barely live off it - and that living is not sustainable for any significant period of time without consequences.

 

[SocketRocket]

Thought that might be the sort of response I'd get from some. As it happens my son is 'getting out there looking' and his partner is under 25 so hopefully will be able to benefit from what Sunak comes up with this afternoon. And i repeat - well done Sunak on recognising the problems that age group face in seeking work - even though there is still some out there.

Sunak is indeed 'waving a magic wand' for that age group - as he has done for the employed over the last 3 months. Sunak has a magic wand - he can do whatever he wants to do if he decides to do it,

But so predictable and so easy to say isn't it - the old and apparently still the Tory way - 'they should take responsibility for themselves' - as Tebbit said, 'get on their bike' - easy to say when you are not having to live off £112/week as you hunt; whist jobs are disappearing out of the door in great numbers, and the number looking for new work is growing massively.

So that's it then. All those on amounts such as £112/week to live on will just have to 'suck it up' and get on with looking for work. There is still some out there...apparently. Oh yes. So easy to say. But it is said. Tough.

I note - that given the circumstances we will not allow our son to get mired in the misery and despair coming from having to live off that amount of money for any significant period of time as they look for work. His circumstances are not of his making. We will help him out as he looks. But there are many hundreds of thousands out there who will not be so fortunate.

What type of response did you expect, you have been posting about the hard times your son and girlfriend have been going through for years now, it just seems like they both need a good dose of reality and should be grateful the state is paying all their living costs. How much does a pensioner get to live on?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Not much room for living there. But that's just simply the bare facts of living on UC - and what very many will be faced with...OK for a short time whilst loking for a new job - but not much fun for the longer term...

So what could/should the Chancellor do?

It is not meant to be fun, it is a safety net. If it was fun then there would be little incentive to get off it. The aim is to enable the basics only, not lifes added bonuses. If you want those then you need to work.

It is going to be tough for a good while for a good number of people but increasing UC to make life more comfortable for everyone on it is not the answer. That will have an unintended consequence that we do not want.

In answer to your last question, nothing towards UC, help kick start the economy and create an environment where work/jobs is more readily available.

 

[Slab]

Thought that might be the sort of response I'd get from some. As it happens my son is 'getting out there looking' and his partner is under 25 so hopefully will be able to benefit from what Sunak comes up with this afternoon. And i repeat - well done Sunak on recognising the problems that age group face in seeking work - even though there is still some out there.

Sunak is indeed 'waving a magic wand' for that age group - as he has done for the employed over the last 3 months. Sunak has a magic wand - he can do whatever he wants to do if he decides to do it,

But so predictable and so easy to say isn't it - the old and apparently still the Tory way - 'they should take responsibility for themselves' - as Tebbit said, 'get on their bike' - easy to say when you are not having to live off £112/week as you hunt; whist jobs are disappearing out of the door in great numbers, and the number looking for new work is growing massively.

So that's it then. All those on amounts such as £112/week to live on will just have to 'suck it up' and get on with looking for work. There is still some out there...apparently. Oh yes. So easy to say. But it is said. Tough.

I note - that given the circumstances we will not allow our son to get mired in the misery, despair and depression that comes from having to live off that amount of money for any significant period of time as they look for work. His circumstances are not of his making. We will help him out as he looks.

But there are many hundreds of thousands out there who will not be so fortunate. And that is more to the point I am highlighting in respect of UC. You can only barely live off it - and that living is not sustainable for any significant period of time without consequences.

I think all you can do is look after your own family (which is what you're doing). If you have real anxiety and a desire to change what's currently done to support unemployed of all ages then you'll have to stand for election and make it happen for future unemployed

 

[DanFST]

But there are many hundreds of thousands out there who will not be so fortunate. And that is more to the point I am highlighting in respect of UC. You can only barely live off it - and that living is not sustainable for any significant period of time without consequences.

I lived off £100 a week for over a year in London, whilst starting my career (no uni degree), It's not too bad at all, even better if I was at home, no need to spend and go out.

You have to make the most of free beers! (Olio and togoodtogo are great apps also, you can pick up food from restaurants and cafes for cheap before they throw it out)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Really liking what I am hearing from Sunak...recognising the problems of unemployment - creating jobs, training schemes and support to employers. I can listen to Sunak and believe and trust in what he says. I compare and contrast with a.n.other that I have been listening to in the last couple of hours.

But Sunak. He is waving his magic wand - just waved it on stamp duty

 

[SocketRocket]

Really liking what I am hearing from Sunak...recognising the problems of unemployment - creating jobs, training schemes and support to employers. I can listen to Sunak and believe and trust in what he says. I compare and contrast with a.n.other that I have been listening to in the last couple of hours.

But Sunak. He is waving his magic wand - just waved it on stamp duty

But all Government decisions are Boris's personal responsibility so surely you will be patting his back just like you criticise him for anything you dont like.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I lived off £100 a week for over a year in London, whilst starting my career (no uni degree), It's not too bad at all, even better if I was at home, no need to spend and go out.

You have to make the most of free beers! (Olio and togoodtogo are great apps also, you can pick up food from restaurants and cafes for cheap before they throw it out)

But it's not really much of a way to live is it (and my example was £112 a week for two). And I am thinking that free food and drink will be less easy to come by in a hammered (today) Sheffield than in a prosperous (as was) London. But I agree - like you my son and his partner do not go out - and he is excellent getting free stuff through Facebook, Gumtree and other sites. Yes you can survive while you look for work - but that's about the best of it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But all Government decisions are Boris's personal responsibility so surely you will be patting his back just like you crisis him for anything you dont like.

Yes indeed. But what you do good does not absolve you from your lies and deceits.

 

[SocketRocket]

Yes indeed. But what you do good does not absolve you from your lies and deceits.

Surely the reverse also applies.