Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[AmandaJR]

I think Boris was way out of order and needs to apologise or clarify what he meant to say He's done a Trump and spoken out of turn and needs to put it right.

Slightly amused at the BBC leading with this and their faux outrage. The same BBC who has had countless undercover Panorama programmes and investigations into the appalling standard of care and even abuse in care homes!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nice to see Bojo laying the ground work to shift the blame for all the deaths in care homes as he knows it is a damning indictment on the government's handling of the crisis. Apparently they didn't follow the correct procedures. Unlike Cummings who apparently did. Strange old world.

Absolutely, dead cat again, and what will happen is every word will be disected for what he did and didn’t actually say and then focus on the small percentage were he may be correct and ignore the large percentage that he got wrong.

Would be interesting to know when he found out some didn’t follow the procedures and what action he took once he found out.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Nice to see Bojo laying the ground work to shift the blame for all the deaths in care homes as he knows it is a damning indictment on the government's handling of the crisis. Apparently they didn't follow the correct procedures. Unlike Cummings who apparently did. Strange old world.

I thought it had been clarified that he meant that no one knew the correct procedures due to not knowing about asymptomatic transmission. That's not to say I believe that explanation as the slopey shouldered buffoon would do anything to avoid the blame falling on him or his government.

 

[Foxholer]

...
Slightly amused at the BBC leading with this and their faux outrage. The same BBC who has had countless undercover Panorama programmes and investigations into the appalling standard of care and even abuse in care homes!

Surely that would mean that their outrage is genuine - and from knowledge and experience of the situation? Or did those programmes/investigations not find any problems?

 

[AmandaJR]

Surely that would mean that their outrage is genuine - and from knowledge and experience of the situation? Or did those programmes/investigations not find any problems?

Their outrage is that Boris dared to criticise their handling of the epidemic.

 

[AmandaJR]

I thought it had been clarified that he meant that no one knew the correct procedures due to not knowing about asymptomatic transmission. That's not to say I believe that explanation as the slopey shouldered buffoon would do anything to avoid the blame falling on him or his government.

Hence the The minister today claiming he was saying no one knew how best to handle it is tosh...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I thought it had been clarified that he meant that no one knew the correct procedures due to not knowing about asymptomatic transmission. That's not to say I believe that explanation as the slopey shouldered buffoon would do anything to avoid the blame falling on him or his government.

That point was made by the Business Secretary, Alok Sharma that he believed that boris was pointing out no one knew the correct procedures.

So not sure if he was speaking officially for boris or just giving his take on what was said.

 

[Foxholer]

Their outrage is that Boris dared to criticise their handling of the epidemic.

And again...Isn't it Boris that is being criticised for his handling of it? Excuse my confusion, but can you explain (as I can't understand) how a broadcasting organisation can 'handle' the epidemic? That surely IS something for the Government, in this case, to do. A broadcasting organisation can surely only provide 'coverage' of how it's being handled.

 

[Mudball]

 

[funkycoldmedina]

What I find most outstanding is that a Tory PM is shocked that when you open up something to the free market such as care homes the providers main concern is around profit. How much can we charge and how cheap can we provide it. Serco, Group 4 etc etc all doing the same thing.
My dad is in a well run care home, pretty sure he had it in fact, the biggest gripe they've had is testing, they felt abandoned for a good period at the beginning. They barrier nurse anyone with symptoms but they need to know who amongst patients and staff are asymptomatic. They still have new cases now.
As we all know there are some horrendous providers but there are many good ones, having a sly pop at them for your own failings and putting them in the crosshairs is morally repugnant especially considering the harrowing time many of them will have had to endure over the last few months. When my dad started with symptoms I asked the home what their procedures were. In the nicest of ways they said they would make him comfortable but he would not be admitted to hospital. That's an awful thing for these people to have to deal with.

 

[SocketRocket]

Another Boris critical onslaught by the 'great offended brigade' What a job he has, it seems he's personally responsible for the handling of people in care homes now and was found incapable by the slope of his shoulders and Buffonary, but not only that, care homes were severely affected by some bloke driving his car to his Dads.

 

[SocketRocket]

What I find most outstanding is that a Tory PM is shocked that when you open up something to the free market such as care homes the providers main concern is around profit. How much can we charge and how cheap can we provide it. Serco, Group 4 etc etc all doing the same thing.
My dad is in a well run care home, pretty sure he had it in fact, the biggest gripe they've had is testing, they felt abandoned for a good period at the beginning. They barrier nurse anyone with symptoms but they need to know who amongst patients and staff are asymptomatic. They still have new cases now.
As we all know there are some horrendous providers but there are many good ones, having a sly pop at them for your own failings and putting them in the crosshairs is morally repugnant especially considering the harrowing time many of them will have had to endure over the last few months. When my dad started with symptoms I asked the home what their procedures were. In the nicest of ways they said they would make him comfortable but he would not be admitted to hospital. That's an awful thing for these people to have to deal with.

Yes, there were mistakes made when dealing with this new virus and it wouldnt be right to lay criticism at the doors of most care homes but it's also wrong for people to lay the blame for the Social Care system at Boris, this issue is as old as the hills and needs addressing but lets all keep party political bias out of it. Hopefully a lesson will have been learned here that will provoke some new policy.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Love the over reaction from a “boris can do no wrong” supporter,
5 posts described as an “onslaught” yet only 3 from apparent Labour supporters.

Whether people accept it or not a “Leader” is ultimately responsible for what happens during their tenure, that could be the “Leader” of a Football team or a Rugby team or a Global business or a Local business.

Are we really back to boris supporters accepting no criticism whatsoever of the glorious leader.

 

[Ethan]

Johnson is a liar and a coward. He is happy to change his story when it suits him, and to blame others for his own many failings. The care home crisis is due in large part to discharges back from hospitals to care homes made hastily by a panicked Govt after they realised their euthanasia experiment in herd immunity was going to come with a much higher cost in bodies than they first realised. At the time, neither the NHS not care homes had adequate testing or PPE. The ring of protection for the care sector claimed by Hancock is risible. Precisely the opposite happened.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so Team 'Always and Forever Boris' rally to his defence by rationalising and spinning what he said yesterday into something that he did not say.

And the acolytes in his Cabinet do likewise in the media (see for example Alok Sharma on Today this morning - just shamelessly sticking to the JohnCumm line).

But as some here have already demonstrated - that spinning has worked, because Johnson's comments are indeed being seen by some as reasonable - that indeed some of the problems leading to deaths in care homes were nothing to do with lack of guidance, clarity or support (PPE etc) from the government - or indeed misguided and risky policy - the problems in so many homes were the fault of the care homes themselves.

Pretty sickening really - so when he was clapping just a couple of days ago he was clapping for some care homes and some carers - but not all. But his words are out there and that's all a populist leader has to do. His supporters will believe his words yesterday are what he believes and so what was the truth - no matter what anyone subsequently says.

And of course no sight whatsoever of an apology to care home workers from Johnson - and there won't be - because he is a populist leader and populist leaders are always right. For too many Johnson was right on Brexit - he has to be as they followed his lead and believed his deceits - and so for that same group he must always be right on all matters.

 

[DanFST]

The devolved nations can only spend the share of UK money that Westminster allows them to spend, they are not allowed to borrow additional money like the UK.
They still have to pay our their share of the massive debts that the Westminster governments have built up over successive years.
'UK' spends such as HS2, Channel Tunnel and Crossrail are included in this equation whereas Forth Crossing and dualing the A9 are not.
Devolved nations are not in control of their economies they can only manage on what they get back from Westminster.

Whilst you are correct, Scottish deficit is 7.2% and rising & GDP is shrinking. (Oil and gas is struggling)

It's not Westminster debts that are causing that.

 

[MegaSteve]

Didn't he say "some" didn't follow correct procedures? As far as I can gather that is true but that isn't as good a story is it ?

As I understand it, the 'homes' that fared best were the ones that didn't follow government 'procedures'...

 

[Hacker Khan]

Love the over reaction from a “boris can do no wrong” supporter,
5 posts described as an “onslaught” yet only 3 from apparent Labour supporters.

Whether people accept it or not a “Leader” is ultimately responsible for what happens during their tenure, that could be the “Leader” of a Football team or a Rugby team or a Global business or a Local business.

Are we really back to boris supporters accepting no criticism whatsoever of the glorious leader.

Someone has not called me a labour supporter again have they? How may times, I haven't voted Labour in ages, do I look like some commie loving Corbynista?

I have said many times that I abhor Labour's economic ideology. How they allegedly want to massively expand the role of the state and pump billons into the economy with scant regard for how we will pay it all back. The Tories just do not do that kind of thing. They know an economy mostly built on consumer spending, zero hours contracts and cheap credit is sound, and I think Labour could learn a lot from the Tories recent approach to economic matters.

 

[MegaSteve]

Yes, there were mistakes made when dealing with this new virus and it wouldnt be right to lay criticism at the doors of most care homes but it's also wrong for people to lay the blame for the Social Care system at Boris, this issue is as old as the hills and needs addressing but lets all keep party political bias out of it. Hopefully a lesson will have been learned here that will provoke some new policy.

This issue is not "as old as the hills"... I can well remember the exemplary care my grandparents received, back in the day, in council owned/managed care homes...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Someone has not called me a labour supporter again have they? How may times, I haven't voted Labour in ages, do I look like some commie loving Corbynista?

I have said many times that I abhor Labour's economic ideology. How they allegedly want to massively expand the role of the state and pump billons into the economy with scant regard for how we will pay it all back. The Tories just do not do that kind of thing. They know an economy mostly built on consumer spending, zero hours contracts and cheap credit is sound, and I think Labour could learn a lot from the Tories recent approach to economic matters.

You’re one of the 2 non-Labourites, I think. But certainly one of the “great offended brigade” who took part in the onslaught.