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Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
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No matter - as ever, Johnson's fans will simply rationalise this mess to themselves and others as being of less importance than was originally suggested, or someone else's fault. In this case we misunderstood if we thought the App was key to test and trace - it was never intended to be anything more than the icing on the cake - and of course it is Apple's fault that the App failed. Sorted.
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Spot on. A few weeks ago we were promised 'a world beating app'. Now we can't deliver it, it's just the cherry on the cake. Never mind that without it, it's impossible to trace people that carriers sat beside on public transport, it's now just a nice-to-have.
 
rudebhoy said:
Spot on. A few weeks ago we were promised 'a world beating app'. Now we can't deliver it, it's just the cherry on the cake. Never mind that without it, it's impossible to trace people that carriers sat beside on public transport, it's now just a nice-to-have.
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Of course, if they'd have checked into it just a tiny bit, they'd have realised Apple's (not unreasonable/totally reasonable) policy of 'absolute privacy' was always going to clobber any real ability to use track/trace with Iphones! Apple's proprietry app is the obvious way to go - but there's likely some sort of cost involved.
 
Foxholer said:
Of course, if they'd have checked into it just a tiny bit, they'd have realised Apple's (not unreasonable/totally reasonable) policy of 'absolute privacy' was always going to clobber any real ability to use track/trace with Iphones! Apple's proprietry app is the obvious way to go - but there's likely some sort of cost involved.
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Is that the one Germany’s app is based on?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-app-as-eu-eyes-travel-revival-idUSKBN23N160
It’s through work with apple and google (alphabet?) and no user information is stored anywhere.
 
SocketRocket said:
When someone persuades you that there is a better way to do something and you take on board their view its normally seen as a positive attribute and a sign of the Entente Cordiale, but not in these more enlightened times, it's now a 'Humiliating U Turn' ?
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Agree with that... however things are slightly different. First you don’t listen/agree with something that you were told earlier AND you go to market to say why your system is better than initial suggestion. Then the techies or a footy player points out that the emperor has no clothes.. then you go and use the original suggestion ... that is called U-turn rather than a positive attitude ..
 
funkycoldmedina said:
Do you have a source for that?
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Matt Hancock, 17:00 Press briefing today.

What amazes me is why it seems its a common media sport to put the UK down in order to have a dig at the UK Government. The PM and ministers aren't the writers of the program code. We have some of the best software and App developers in the world and its time we grew up.

Our developer found that the Apple device based approach miss-calculated distance because of the way the blue-tooth function operates under iOS. An approach to Apple to change their Blue-tooth handshaking was blanked and that prevented the UK's server based system from getting the level of accuracy required.

Our UK developers are trying to get Google - Apple to coordinate and collaborate with the UK so BOTH methods gain: seems to be a dam good idea to me.

All other countries are having issues with their distance estimation algorithm and the UK's is recognised to be the best mathematical algorithmic approaches and is being shared.
 
pendodave said:
Another day, another **** up.
I find the attitude of the toryboyz on here so dispiriting. Why not just say that despite your preference for a right of centre government, the current cabinet are a bunch of incompetents.
At least it would be intellectually coherent.
Unlike almost all of the stuff posted...
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And you call us Tory Boys, intellectualy incoherent, dispiriting, while criticising attitudes. Come on now, you are the exact inverse of that you castigate, try a little balance yourself and maybe we could all have a reasoned debate...
 
drdel said:
Matt Hancock, 17:00 Press briefing today.

What amazes me is why it seems its a common media sport to put the UK down in order to have a dig at the UK Government. The PM and ministers aren't the writers of the program code. We have some of the best software and App developers in the world and its time we grew up.

Our developer found that the Apple device based approach miss-calculated distance because of the way the blue-tooth function operates under iOS. An approach to Apple to change their Blue-tooth handshaking was blanked and that prevented the UK's server based system from getting the level of accuracy required.

Our UK developers are trying to get Google - Apple to coordinate and collaborate with the UK so BOTH methods gain: seems to be a dam good idea to me.

All other countries are having issues with their distance estimation algorithm and the UK's is recognised to be the best mathematical algorithmic approaches and is being shared.
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Calling out an incompetent set of people does not equating to putting the country down.. Sorry to say, that statement is straight from the PR handbook that ties one bad thing to a greater bad thing. e.g. Anyone who votes Trump is a Racist or Mad or both..
Let me give 2 examples of good and bad...

1) At one stage, we were in panic to scale up on ventilators.. good response. Then we went past the peak and we dont need so many ventis,.... good response.
On the other hand T&T app was central to our way to control it ..... nothing has changed, in fact we need it even more after lifting of lockdown, but suddenly it is no longer priority. It will be available in winter!!! WTF response

2)
if I buy the argument that Apple & Google said no, and hence we are changing...
Then it is followed by 'Other countries are having the same problem'... ok, still buying
'So we are now going to adopt the (non-working) method used by other countries!!!'... WTF...

... Surely the 3 lines dont add up... if you know something is not working, then why do it. Singapore went down the wrist band route rather than app route. Is there another option?
 
Mudball said:
Calling out an incompetent set of people does not equating to putting the country down.. Sorry to say, that statement is straight from the PR handbook that ties one bad thing to a greater bad thing. e.g. Anyone who votes Trump is a Racist or Mad or both..
Let me give 2 examples of good and bad...

1) At one stage, we were in panic to scale up on ventilators.. good response. Then we went past the peak and we dont need so many ventis,.... good response.
On the other hand T&T app was central to our way to control it ..... nothing has changed, in fact we need it even more after lifting of lockdown, but suddenly it is no longer priority. It will be available in winter!!! WTF response

2)
if I buy the argument that Apple & Google said no, and hence we are changing...
Then it is followed by 'Other countries are having the same problem'... ok, still buying
'So we are now going to adopt the (non-working) method used by other countries!!!'... WTF...

... Surely the 3 lines dont add up... if you know something is not working, then why do it. Singapore went down the wrist band route rather than app route. Is there another option?
Click to expand...

What's the "wristband route"? This is a genuine question as I haven't heard anything about it.
 
Mudball said:
Agree with that... however things are slightly different. First you don’t listen/agree with something that you were told earlier AND you go to market to say why your system is better than initial suggestion. Then the techies or a footy player points out that the emperor has no clothes.. then you go and use the original suggestion ... that is called U-turn rather than a positive attitude ..
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I prefer to consider it a change of mind after considering an alternative view. Would it be better if they stuck solidly to their opinion and completely ignored other viewpoints, they would get a media pasting for doing that so its a rather 'no win' situation out there. I dont know about you but during my career I changed policy at times after someone explained a different viewpoint or technicality. As someone has suggested, politicians are not normally the expert in the subject matter, much of it is very complex or has implications that are very technical, social or ecconomic that they have to rely on the expert civil servants and advisors for direction. OK, I accept some things look straight forward but they can have deeper implications.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
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It chose to develop a British 'perfect' but higher risk solution, over taking the sub-optimal (against UK requirements) off-the-shelf, low risk and proven solution. And it wasn't as if there weren't many asking why we were going to plough our own furrow rather than adopt an existing and proven solution
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So what was this existing and proven solution? The Apple/Google app doesn't work either. It can't measure distance, which seems to be pretty fundamental when considering proximity.
 
SocketRocket said:
I prefer to consider it a change of mind after considering an alternative view. Would it be better if they stuck solidly to their opinion and completely ignored other viewpoints, they would get a media pasting for doing that so its a rather 'no win' situation out there. I dont know about you but during my career I changed policy at times after someone explained a different viewpoint or technicality. As someone has suggested, politicians are not normally the expert in the subject matter, much of it is very complex or has implications that are very technical, social or ecconomic that they have to rely on the expert civil servants and advisors for direction. OK, I accept some things look straight forward but they can have deeper implications.
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I change all the time, but i dont make it a habit to first (mod edit) over the original idea as rubbish and then change it when the whole thing blows up under pressure. And also when i change, i have the humilty to accept that i made a mistake and therefore changed - not try and put more spin on it
 
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Mudball said:
I change all the time, but i dont make it a habit to first (Mod Edit)over the original idea as rubbish and then change it when the whole thing blows up under pressure. And also when i change, i have the humilty to accept that i made a mistake and therefore changed - not try and put more spin on it
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That's a bit strong language. I dont think anyone actually did that, I dont know if you've worked in developing software but it's a complex procedure and prone to having to rethink specifications and timescales. I'm struggling to remember a project that didnt have to be respecified or was produced on time. Incorrect decisions do get made, things do have to be changed when something blows up under pressure but dont let's start thinking this is a specific problem to the current Government.
 
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SocketRocket said:
That's a bit strong language. I dont think anyone actually did that, I dont know if you've worked in developing software but it's a complex procedure and prone to having to rethink specifications and timescales. I'm struggling to remember a project that didnt have to be respecified or was produced on time. Incorrect decisions do get made, things do have to be changed when something blows up under pressure but dont let's start thinking this is a specific problem to the current Government.
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Only 20 years or so.. but still learning. Agree its complex.. i m not debating the s/w development process, i am talking about the way it is being managed.

ColchesterFC said:
What's the "wristband route"? This is a genuine question as I haven't heard anything about it.
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Apologies i should have said Hong Kong rather than Singapore - thought i thought Sg was doing the same. But if i was an MP, i would probably laugh it off as both are the same..
https://qz.com/1822215/hong-kong-uses-tracking-wristbands-for-coronavirus-quarantine/
 
Mudball said:
Apologies i should have said Hong Kong rather than Singapore - thought i thought Sg was doing the same. But if i was an MP, i would probably laugh it off as both are the same..
https://qz.com/1822215/hong-kong-uses-tracking-wristbands-for-coronavirus-quarantine/
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard of that before. My only concern would be whether it was possible to remove the wristband and leave it at home while I went out shopping. I'm not trying to denigrate the system, as at first look it seems better than anything we currently have in place, but just wondered how east it was to subvert the aims of it.
 
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