Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[rudebhoy]

I prefer to consider it a change of mind after considering an alternative view. Would it be better if they stuck solidly to their opinion and completely ignored other viewpoints, they would get a media pasting for doing that so its a rather 'no win' situation out there. I dont know about you but during my career I changed policy at times after someone explained a different viewpoint or technicality. As someone has suggested, politicians are not normally the expert in the subject matter, much of it is very complex or has implications that are very technical, social or ecconomic that they have to rely on the expert civil servants and advisors for direction. OK, I accept some things look straight forward but they can have deeper implications.

Changing your mind in light of new information is fine, however dismissing the key functionality the app was due to deliver as 'the cherry on the cake' simply because you don't know how to deliver it is disingenuous in the extreme and is treating your customer (the British public) like idiots.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Calling out an incompetent set of people does not equating to putting the country down.. Sorry to say, that statement is straight from the PR handbook that ties one bad thing to a greater bad thing. e.g. Anyone who votes Trump is a Racist or Mad or both..
Let me give 2 examples of good and bad...

1) At one stage, we were in panic to scale up on ventilators.. good response. Then we went past the peak and we dont need so many ventis,.... good response.
On the other hand T&T app was central to our way to control it ..... nothing has changed, in fact we need it even more after lifting of lockdown, but suddenly it is no longer priority. It will be available in winter!!! WTF response

2)
if I buy the argument that Apple & Google said no, and hence we are changing...
Then it is followed by 'Other countries are having the same problem'... ok, still buying
'So we are now going to adopt the (non-working) method used by other countries!!!'... WTF...

... Surely the 3 lines dont add up... if you know something is not working, then why do it. Singapore went down the wrist band route rather than app route. Is there another option?

A u-turn? James cleverly played a ’blinder’ last night on QT explaining how this app fiasco was nothing of the sort - how it was the right thing to ‘back both horses’ then choose. Which is what we’ve done.

Fiona Bruce asked if that was indeed the case - then the alternative will have been in development and testing alongside the NHSX App and so ready or almost ready for us to download - yes? if not now then when - has to be soon surely. His squirming as he avoided answering - avoiding saying anything that suggested that was not the case was almost embarrassing as it seemed pretty obvious he was simply making it up as he went along.

In the end what we had with Cleverley was yet another example of a government who despite what they say seem to not really understand the need to be realistic, open and honest with us...a government full of hubris and exceptionalism, but empty of humility and honesty. It was depressing listening to him.

 

[rudebhoy]

A u-turn? James cleverly played a ’blinder’ last night on QT explaining how this app fiasco was nothing of the sort - how it was the right thing to ‘back both horses’ then choose. Which is what we’ve done.

Fiona Bruce asked if that was indeed the case - then the alternative will have been in development and testing alongside the NHSX App and so ready or almost ready for us to download - yes? if not now then when - has to be soon surely. His squirming as he avoided answering - avoiding saying anything that suggested that was not the case was almost embarrassing as it seemed pretty obvious he was simply making it up as he went along.

In the end what we had with Cleverley was yet another example of a government who despite what they say seem to not really understand the need to be realistic, open and honest with us...a government full of hubris and exceptionalism, but empty of humility and honesty. It was depressing listening to him.

This 'backing both horses' line is no doubt Cummings' brainwave excuse, unfortunately even the most loyal of Tory papers aren't falling for it.

 

[bobmac]

It was depressing listening to him.

Are you still looking for things to depress and annoy you?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're worrying yourself to a heart attack.
Let other people who are paid to worry, do the worrying and stop looking for trouble.
You'll be a lot happier, less stressed and live longer.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The UK has been developing both approaches for the App.

They have offered to share the UK developed algorithm with Apple so that the advantages of both will be combined.

So why did Hancock fail to mention this in his previous briefings

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Great idea, let's go for a solution that doesn't work for the phone with 49.24% market share in the UK. That will teach the sheep for buying overpriced phones!

The IOW folk recognised that in the first week.
They said having a note book and pencil on you and writing down the names of all the people you meet with in a day was a much better option.

 

[Old Skier]

Great idea, let's go for a solution that doesn't work for the phone with 49.24% market share in the UK. That will teach the sheep for buying overpriced phones!

So android phones have the market share and the experts said android was more accurate with location device so it's a choice to be made. It seems the sheep world wide are way behind with 74% of the share going to android.

Neither app seems to do the perfect job so the sheep have it.

 

[drdel]

It’s the opposite isn’t it? Drop our App for an App that gets 99%, win/win for both android and ios users.

Not sure about the world wide comment, it’s the UK Government that have made the decision to drop their App.

Wrong. Both apps work. Neither has been dropped. The plan is to combine the approaches and use the UK algorithm and functionality on both Android and iOS so that the accuracy is sufficient for the UK.

 

[rudebhoy]

So android phones have the market share and the experts said android was more accurate with location device so it's a choice to be made. It seems the sheep world wide are way behind with 74% of the share going to android.

Neither app seems to do the perfect job so the sheep have it.

Actually, neither is fit for purpose, so it's pointless rolling out either.

 

[rudebhoy]

Wrong. Both apps work. Neither has been dropped. The plan is to combine the approaches and use the UK algorithm and functionality on both Android and iOS so that the accuracy is sufficient for the UK.

so all the reports on tv and in the press were wrong, and the homegrown app hasn't been dropped?

have Apple agreed to incorporate what has been developed here in their app?

Even the Daily Mail is calling it a fiasco, but some on here are pretending it's all going well. Incredible.

 

[GB72]

So, we are now officially down to level 3. As good news normally results in Boris coming to the podium tonight (not a political dig, he just does seem to like to deliver the good news) what chance of him announcing the next raft of relaxations. I can see some formal announcements being made for the beginning of July to allow 2 weeks of prep time as was given to the retail sector. My bet is on hairdressers, beauty salons and a tentative move on pubs and restaurants. Can also see groups of up to 10 allowed to meet outside and perhaps even one other household being allowed to meet inside.

 

[GB72]

In all honesty, I really do not care what has happened to date on the app. What I am relieved about is that someone has put there hand up, said our one is not working and moved on to something else rather than try and save face by struggling on with what we had started with which is something that governments from both sides of the house have been guilty of in the past.

 

[drdel]

so all the reports on tv and in the press were wrong, and the homegrown app hasn't been dropped?

have Apple agreed to incorporate what has been developed here in their app?

Even the Daily Mail is calling it a fiasco, but some on here are pretending it's all going well. Incredible.

If you want to look at it from that viewpoint: both have been dropped.

 

[Beezerk]

so all the reports on tv and in the press were wrong, and the homegrown app hasn't been dropped?

And you believe everything you see on tv and in the newspapers?

 

[rudebhoy]

If you want to look at it from that viewpoint: both have been dropped.

There is a difference. The Apple app needs life saving surgery, but the homegrown app has been pronounced dead.

 

[rudebhoy]

And you believe everything you see on tv and in the newspapers?

Not always, but they are right this time.

 

[Beezerk]

Not always, but they are right this time.

Or maybe they are right when it suits your narrative?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This 'backing both horses' line is no doubt Cummings' brainwave excuse, unfortunately even the most loyal of Tory papers aren't falling for it.




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Cleverly pushed the line that the government would be putting the best of both solution together to create a hybrid. Apple today have said they have had no discussions whatsoever about building a 'hybrid' - and so would know not what Cleverly was talking about. Well of course they wouldn't - he was just making it up as he went along (or trying a line that Dom had spun for him to use)

And as far as the suggestion that I should stop listening to government ministers and MPs as they continue to disappoint and frustrate me so much. Really? I am afraid that my not watching and listening does not make the incompetence of this bunch go away. We surely all have a 'civic duty' to at least try to listen to what ministers and MPs say - and try to understand what is being directed to me as a member of the public.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

so all the reports on tv and in the press were wrong, and the homegrown app hasn't been dropped?

have Apple agreed to incorporate what has been developed here in their app?

Even the Daily Mail is calling it a fiasco, but some on here are pretending it's all going well. Incredible.

I believe that Apple have this morning said that they know nothing about a 'hybrid'. Besides - when did we first hear of this twin track approach to the app development - and the possibility of creating a 'best of both worlds' hybrid. Yes I know. When Matt told us about it yesterday.

And yet and still the Johnson lovers rationalise and convince themselves that this was always what was the best thing, and in fact what was intended - so government has nothing to apologise about.

 

[SocketRocket]

In all honesty, I really do not care what has happened to date on the app. What I am relieved about is that someone has put there hand up, said our one is not working and moved on to something else rather than try and save face by struggling on with what we had started with which is something that governments from both sides of the house have been guilty of in the past.

That's far too sensible a post.