Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SocketRocket]

Aren't we in a situation where we either risk more people dying or we risk the economy going really tits up. But, due to whatever reason (I would say mostly government incompetence and poor leadership, others would disagree) we are in the situation where we are currently not in a great place now when it comes to deaths, test and trace etc. So people understandably are a bit weary of the measures being taken top open up more.

I don't think anyone is arguing we need to get the economy up and running, it's just that some of us would have liked us to be in a stronger position to begin that process. Other seem happy to ignore that and sweep it under the carpet.

Would you support anything an incompetent Government with poor leadership did (others would agree)
Let's face it they will never win with you, you just cant bring yourself to support anything they do so why not just make a post saying that and save all the repetition.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Nice to see the government have eventually rowed back on their intention for all kids to be in primary school before the end of term. Not sure if they did not think this one out properly (Johnny has 7 classrooms and 210 kids in normal circumstances. However now each classroom can only have 15 kids in it, so how many classrooms does Johnny need to be able to open the school to all the pupils? That's correct, it's more than the physical capacity just about of every school seeing as the number of classrooms in primary schools is generally based on a class size of around 30. Well done Johnny, you are now better at maths than the education secretary) or they thought we'd be further down the line when it comes to R rates, test and trace etc by this stage.

However I expect we'll now have parents in the years that are not currently back and can't come back due to lack of classrooms wanting to send their kids back. And everything will be the schools fault for not providing an education for the kids... Another fine mess the government have got the schools into.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For ministers and others struggling to understand what ministerial responsibility means - simply see Lord Carrington and the Falklands.

And so - over to Mr Gavin Williamson and the back-to-school shambles and his accusations of 'scaremongering' levelled at all those in the teaching profession who expressed great reservations over the practicalities...

Given this I am wondering how Williamson has got on working with schools in getting laptops to disadvantaged teenagers (announced 19th April) as that would seem to be critical now.

 

[drdel]

For ministers and others struggling to understand what ministerial responsibility means - simply see Lord Carrington and the Falklands.

And so - over to Mr Gavin Williamson and the back-to-school shambles and his accusations of 'scaremongering' levelled at all those in the teaching profession who expressed great reservations over the practicalities...

Given this I am wondering how Williamson has got on working with schools in getting laptops to disadvantaged teenagers (announced 19th April) as that would seem to be critical now.

OK let us just ignore that the world is grappling with a pandemic caused by a new virus that has proven to be very virulent.

Yet, uniquely: you and HH assert the UK Government and scientists should have found a magical cure, they should all have predicted how long the gestation period would last. Those idiots should have been able to predicted exactly when and how much PPE, diagnostic capabilities each care home, hospital and School would need

According to you, Williamson is such an idiot because he and his advisors do not have at their finger tips the exact dimensions and demographics of each and every school or the timemap of infection's demography.

Research and learning is about doing stuff when you are not sure about what you doing!!
Criticism is right and proper but empty ranting is wasted effort.

 

[PNWokingham]

For ministers and others struggling to understand what ministerial responsibility means - simply see Lord Carrington and the Falklands.

And so - over to Mr Gavin Williamson and the back-to-school shambles and his accusations of 'scaremongering' levelled at all those in the teaching profession who expressed great reservations over the practicalities...

Given this I am wondering how Williamson has got on working with schools in getting laptops to disadvantaged teenagers (announced 19th April) as that would seem to be critical now.

so, just to soum up - the governemnt are a shambles on another topic while trying their best to solve a riddle that is impossible to solve and please everyone - they are tring to get children back to school (which every logical person would say is a good thing) in a safe way but that is a bad bad thing as not all schools can do it to the same degree and we cannot guarantee everyone's saftety to the nth degree! Wake up and smell the coffee. Life needs to go on and the economy needs to open up - and we have to learn to live with and manage this virus at the same time

I look forward to the moaning later when no doubt the government will be doing another bad bad thing on the same or a different topic - probably be scope for multiple moaning. No doubt you can enliighten us all then - and also leave out "what they should have done" which is absent from all of your moaning

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

so, just to soum up - the governemnt are a shambles on another topic while trying their best to solve a riddle that is impossible to solve and please everyone - they are tring to get children back to school (which every logical person would say is a good thing) in a safe way but that is a bad bad thing as not all schools can do it to the same degree and we cannot guarantee everyone's saftety to the nth degree! Wake up and smell the coffee. Life needs to go on and the economy needs to open up - and we have to learn to live with and manage this virus at the same time

I look forward to the moaning later when no doubt the government will be doing another bad bad thing on the same or a different topic - probably be scope for multiple moaning. No doubt you can enliighten us all then - and also leave out "what they should have done" which is absent from all of your moaning

As usual you equate pointing out problems, mistakes and changes of mind with moaning. Anything but accept any failings by our government.

The government didn't listen and dismissed concerns about practicalities - indeed called it scaremongering. And as a result the schools have been trying to work towards opening before the summer hols when they could have been working towards getting things sorted for a return end of summer break. It's not difficult to see how they could have managed the situation differently and without hindsight.

But hey. Welcome to the 'No Responsibility' 'No Apologies' government. How about Williamson just apologises to children, parents, teachers, heads and governors for going down the wrong route on this. Maybe he did in his statement to the house as I might have missed it. It would make a welcome change.

 

[Hacker Khan]

OK let us just ignore that the world is grappling with a pandemic caused by a new virus that has proven to be very virulent.

Yet, uniquely: you and HH assert the UK Government and scientists should have found a magical cure, they should all have predicted how long the gestation period would last. Those idiots should have been able to predicted exactly when and how much PPE, diagnostic capabilities each care home, hospital and School would need

According to you, Williamson is such an idiot because he and his advisors do not have at their finger tips the exact dimensions and demographics of each and every school or the timemap of infection's demography.

Research and learning is about doing stuff when you are not sure about what you doing!!
Criticism is right and proper but empty ranting is wasted effort.

Not sure if I am HH. If I am then I did not say they should have found a magical cure. I have stated before that I do see the logic and need to get kids back in schools if they can, as many are missing out on a lot of education. So if you want a I am happy to agree in principle if it can be done safely. My issue was with governments making statements about how many kids will be going back at some date in the future when literally simple maths done by a primary school pupil could have told them that that would not be possible. Every head teacher said that, every governor said that, every teaching union said that, it is not something you can now see with hindsight. It is basic simple maths. And it makes them look silly and distracts from the message that primary school kids education is important.

 

[Hacker Khan]

The government didn't listen and dismissed concerns about practicalities - indeed called it scaremongering. And as a result the schools have been trying to work towards opening before the summer hols when they could have been working towards getting things sorted for a return end of summer break. It's not difficult to see how they could have managed the situation differently and without hindsight.

But hey. Welcome to the 'No Responsibility' 'No Apologies' government. How about Williamson just apologises for going down the wrong route on this. Maybe he did in his statement to the house as I might have missed it.

Many primary schools have successfully opened up to more pupils in reception, Yr1 and 6. As it was the right thing to do and they could do it safely under the restrictions. And there was a lot of scaremongering IMHO. Also most schools never closed down as they were open to children of key workers and those numbers are ever increasing as more professions are classed as key workers. The opening up of schools to more pupils where it is safe is not the issue here, the stupid statement that he wanted to see all primary pupils in school before the end of the term when everyone knew that would be impossible under the current circumstances is.

 

[GB72]

On a change of subject slightly, I saw a post on Facebook from a friend that reminded me that the mention of underlying medical issues (so covid cannot be classed as the sole cause of death, if it had any bearing aside from being present) seems to have disappeared from briefings and coverage. Anyway, the interesting point is that from the NHS figures, the number of deaths that could solely be attributed to Covid was only 1389 as at 2nd June. Of those 1389, nearly 600 were over the age of 80. Obviously not trying to belittle the dreadful impact that this virus is having but it is interesting in relation to the risk of a second wave impacting on the health service etc if caution is shown by those at most risk.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Many primary schools have successfully opened up to more pupils in reception, Yr1 and 6. As it was the right thing to do and they could do it safely under the restrictions. And there was a lot of scaremongering IMHO. Also most schools never closed down as they were open to children of key workers and those numbers are ever increasing as more professions are classed as key workers. The opening up of schools to more pupils where it is safe is not the issue here, the stupid statement that he wanted to see all primary pupils in school before the end of the term when everyone knew that would be impossible under the current circumstances is.

Yes - sorry - I meant opening 'fully'. I can recall discussing this some weeks with my wife some weeks ago after is was announced as we walked past our children's old primary school. OK maybe getting reception and year 6 in, but how on earth are they going to fit all the kids in in groups of no more than 15 in a class? Maybe they could have put some marquees or portacabins up in the playing fields, or split the main hall up somehow and manage the children going in and out - which they could. I suspect they could have managed, but not all primary schools have their own playing fields on site. Indeed it may well be that now that head teachers are able to decide with their school governors, maybe our local school will be able to reopen.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes - sorry - I meant opening 'fully'. I can recall discussing this some weeks with my wife some weeks ago after is was announced as we walked past our children's old primary school. OK maybe getting reception and year 6 in, but how on earth are they going to fit all the kids in in groups of no more than 15 in a class? Maybe they could have put some marquees or portacabins up in the playing fields, or split the main hall up somehow and manage the children going in and out - which they could. I suspect they could have managed, but not all primary schools have their own playing fields on site. Indeed it may well be that now that head teachers are able to decide with their school governors, maybe our local school will be able to reopen.

My daughter is in with the primary kids atm.
The biggest problem she says is because they are in “ bubbles” you need two adults to a class.
Going to the toilets and washing hands is like a military operation.
There is just not enough space for a one way system in the corridors.
It’s working ok now but they are at full capacity with only two year groups in and key workers children.
Politicians bitched enough about turning up in parliament last week to vote .
They don’t inhabit the real world ,,ok on paper But not in practice.

 

[Foxholer]

On a change of subject slightly, I saw a post on Facebook from a friend that reminded me that the mention of underlying medical issues (so covid cannot be classed as the sole cause of death, if it had any bearing aside from being present) seems to have disappeared from briefings and coverage. Anyway, the interesting point is that from the NHS figures, the number of deaths that could solely be attributed to Covid was only 1389 as at 2nd June. Of those 1389, nearly 600 were over the age of 80. Obviously not trying to belittle the dreadful impact that this virus is having but it is interesting in relation to the risk of a second wave impacting on the health service etc if caution is shown by those at most risk.

And there's also the question of 'how many of the nearly 600 came from care homes'!

 

[GB72]

And now we have the WHO stating that it is unlikely that people with Covid who are asymptomatic pass the virus on to other people (BBC website).

 

[DanFST]

And now we have the WHO stating that it is unlikely that people with Covid who are asymptomatic pass the virus on to other people (BBC website).

I would of almost certainly got it from someone who was asymptomatic. Would love to see the research behind their statement.

 

[Italian outcast]

And now we have the WHO stating that it is unlikely that people with Covid who are asymptomatic pass the virus on to other people (BBC website).

I would of almost certainly got it from someone who was asymptomatic. Would love to see the research behind their statement.

I'm pretty certain that this statement at face value will be wrong - the BBC are reporting on the initial statement - meanwhile the twitter-sphere has been rightfully IMO ripping it to shreds all day

 

[Foxholer]

And now we have the WHO stating that it is unlikely that people with Covid who are asymptomatic pass the virus on to other people (BBC website).

That's merely 'analysing statistics' about the way the disease interacts with folk it infects. WHO is learning more about how his virus works 'on the fly'. There may even be some commonality about the asymptomatic folk. It was this sort of analysis by Jenner that (eventually) saved millions from the now erradicated Smallpox! I'd suggest an analysis of what's 'common' about the asymptomatic folk would be worthwhile.

 

[GB72]

This is the problem, the opening lines from the BBC article are as follows:

People with coronavirus but no symptoms infecting others is "very rare", a World Health Organization scientist has said.
Although a proportion of people test positive with no symptoms, it is believed these infections are mostly not passed on.

 

[PNWokingham]

This debate about when the virus started will be a hot topic in US China talks this year

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Is it just me that thinks that, with the exception of the Chancellor, this entire UK Government have been promoted way above their pay scale.

 

[PNWokingham]

Is it just me that thinks that, with the exception of the Chancellor, this entire UK Government have been promoted way above their pay scale.

no just you and the others who winge about everything the government does