Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Is it just me that thinks that, with the exception of the Chancellor, this entire UK Government have been promoted way above their pay scale.

You couldn't possibly be referring to Sharma giving non-answers to questions he's asked...and that is not a whinge - it's an observable fact.

Maybe the idea is that if enough of us start thinking 'what's the point' and stop watching, they'll pull the briefings as viewing figures don't make then worthwhile...oh hold on...

 

[drdel]

You couldn't possibly be referring to Sharma giving non-answers to questions he's asked...

Or the questioners wanted answers that depend upon the rate of the virus decline and thus, as they knew, he would not be able provide a definitive response. ITV'S questioners was on an ego trip.

 

[MegaSteve]

For ministers and others struggling to understand what ministerial responsibility means - simply see Lord Carrington and the Falklands.

And so - over to Mr Gavin Williamson and the back-to-school shambles and his accusations of 'scaremongering' levelled at all those in the teaching profession who expressed great reservations over the practicalities...

Given this I am wondering how Williamson has got on working with schools in getting laptops to disadvantaged teenagers (announced 19th April) as that would seem to be critical now.

Williamson shouldn't be anywhere near the top table... Period, end of...

 

[HomerJSimpson]

OK let us just ignore that the world is grappling with a pandemic caused by a new virus that has proven to be very virulent.

Yet, uniquely: you and HH assert the UK Government and scientists should have found a magical cure, they should all have predicted how long the gestation period would last. Those idiots should have been able to predicted exactly when and how much PPE, diagnostic capabilities each care home, hospital and School would need

According to you, Williamson is such an idiot because he and his advisors do not have at their finger tips the exact dimensions and demographics of each and every school or the timemap of infection's demography.

Research and learning is about doing stuff when you are not sure about what you doing!!
Criticism is right and proper but empty ranting is wasted effort.

Like
But it doesn't matter as it's all the Tory's fault and of course had the election gone the other way the labour government would have been far better prepared to deal with a new, virulent virus that has managed to bring the nation to a virtual standstill. That despite the situation at the peak changing within a few hours they would somehow have been better equipped and able to source the resources needed.

The truth, however unpalatable to some, especially those upset at the Brexit and election outcomes, is no-one was fully prepared for this and the scale of the infection and frankly I feel that while mistakes have been made (and hopefully learned for a second wave or rise come the Winter) the Tory government have been on a hiding to nothing. I'd have said the same had labour been in power and rather than whinge at ministers performances at the daily briefings or changing decisions when seeing it is for the better good given the current situation. Some on here have done nothing but slate government performance but been very slow at providing a viable alternative to how it could have been handled differently

 

[Foxholer]

Is it just me that thinks that, with the exception of the Chancellor, this entire UK Government have been promoted way above their pay scale.

Nope!

 

[Foxholer]

OK let us just ignore that the world is grappling with a pandemic caused by a new virus that has proven to be very virulent.

Yet, uniquely: you and HH assert the UK Government and scientists should have found a magical cure, they should all have predicted how long the gestation period would last. Those idiots should have been able to predicted exactly when and how much PPE, diagnostic capabilities each care home, hospital and School would need

According to you, Williamson is such an idiot because he and his advisors do not have at their finger tips the exact dimensions and demographics of each and every school or the timemap of infection's demography.

Research and learning is about doing stuff when you are not sure about what you doing!!
Criticism is right and proper but empty ranting is wasted effort.

Utter Twaddle!

Apart from the last sentence - which you should take as a mantra!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Like
But it doesn't matter as it's all the Tory's fault and of course had the election gone the other way the labour government would have been far better prepared to deal with a new, virulent virus that has managed to bring the nation to a virtual standstill. That despite the situation at the peak changing within a few hours they would somehow have been better equipped and able to source the resources needed.

The truth, however unpalatable to some, especially those upset at the Brexit and election outcomes, is no-one was fully prepared for this and the scale of the infection and frankly I feel that while mistakes have been made (and hopefully learned for a second wave or rise come the Winter) the Tory government have been on a hiding to nothing. I'd have said the same had labour been in power and rather than whinge at ministers performances at the daily briefings or changing decisions when seeing it is for the better good given the current situation. Some on here have done nothing but slate government performance but been very slow at providing a viable alternative to how it could have been handled differently

Nobody has ever said or even pretended Labour would of done better, they are not even mentioned in the post you are replying to!

And in your 2nd paragraph you say you’d of defended them!

What a ridiculous post! Utterly clueless.

 

[drdel]

Utter Twaddle!

Apart from the last sentence - which you should take as a mantra!

Well that's advanced the debate.

I used to tell my Masters and PhD students that is was generally better to be thought to be ignorant than provide evidence and prove it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

My daughter is in with the primary kids atm.
The biggest problem she says is because they are in “ bubbles” you need two adults to a class.
Going to the toilets and washing hands is like a military operation.
There is just not enough space for a one way system in the corridors.
It’s working ok now but they are at full capacity with only two year groups in and key workers children.
Politicians bitched enough about turning up in parliament last week to vote .
They don’t inhabit the real world ,,ok on paper But not in practice.

HID works at an independent school so far smaller classes and she has said the bubbles are a mixed bag. The kids especially the smallest ones love it and suddenly everyone in it are new best friends. However for the TA, teachers and admin staff who have to deal with the bumps. scrapes and sickly it is a nightmare as is trying to get them to understand the instructions about SD and following arrows to simplify movement around the school is a nightmare.

They only have 750 in total so far smaller than most schools but even then it isn't feasible to safely get them back safely. What happens when they decide to let children back to school again in terms of infection control etc.

 

[Papas1982]

Is it just me that thinks that, with the exception of the Chancellor, this entire UK Government have been promoted way above their pay scale.

The only reason the chancellor comes across well imo is because he’s saying what the majority want to hear.

 

[Foxholer]

...I used to tell my Masters and PhD students that is was generally better to be thought to be ignorant than provide evidence and prove it.

Then you should probably take your own advice and resist posting!

And at least acknowledge Abe for the initial quote!

 

[rulefan]

Well that's advanced the debate.

I used to tell my Masters and PhD students that is was generally better to be thought to be ignorant than provide evidence and prove it.

I reckon they would have known where it came from originally

 

[rulefan]

Then you should probably take your own advice and resist posting!

And at least acknowledge Abe for the initial quote!

Or Samuel Johnson or Mark Twain or ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Here's the thing. It's impossible to say how a Labour government would have handled it. Maybe better, maybe worse, we'll never know. But any objective analysis shows that, as a country, we have done pretty badly. Even if you take some of the stats from other countries with a pinch of salt I don't think that's an unfair assessment. We certainly have not done well and some other countries have done well.

You may be of the view that we all need to work together and not blame anyone just now and all will be investigated later. That's fair enough, I suppose, but for those who don't consider that to be the correct approach, who would like to continue to question policy so that the response can be as good as possible some dissent is only natural. In that context, of course the starting point is to hold the government to account where things have not gone well. Quite literally, if anyone is to blame for how our country handled the situation, it is the government.

In our case, we had a number of things in our favour such as forewarning by seeing what was happening in Italy before it reached us. There's a very viable alternative as to how it could have been handled and everyone knows it but ideology prevents some from crticising the government. We should have locked down sooner. And it's not hindsight to say that. I wanted it earlier, many companies (including mine) started to take steps earlier to move to social distancing and home working. If businesses could see it I cannot understand why the government didn't.

Even when Boris finally called his press conference and we all thought "this is the lockdown" he came up with the batshit crazy notion that "pubs can stay open but please don't go to them". And he was going around minimising the dangers saying how he visited a hospital and "shook hands with everyone". That was the key failure and everyone knows it. How many lives lost due to that delay? Sadly, that was baked in by the early indecision (or wrong decision depending on whether we believe it was early dithering or a deliberate strategy to ride it out without a lockdown).

In the meantime, they put some pretty strong measures in place to try and protect the economy and people's livelihoods and to support people in the meantime. And, with scrutiny and questioning, those measures were improved to help some in marginal situations that were missed by the original proposals. That's all good and, while it's too soon to say, there is every possibility that as a result the economic damage will be greatly reduced. But look at New Zealand, for example, imagine how much better our economy would have fared had we locked down hard and early and never allowed the virus to take hold. Not to mention the human cost.

Nobody is saying it's easy, nobody envies the sort of decisions the government are wrestling with but, ultimately, they are in charge and are therefore responsible. I'm afraid that comes with the job and anyone in government who doesn't know and accept that shouldn't be there. So credit, where it is due. And likewise criticism.

Frankly, I'm of the view that once they finally grasped the lockdown nettle they have started to fare much better. A few hiccups, obviously, lots of mixed messaging and some really poor communication but the trends are all heading in the right direction now. It's a challenge to start opening up without allowing the virus to take hold again and I'd probably have preferred they had delayed a bit longer but in these early stages it seems to be going ok. Fingers crossed it continues.

I agree mistakes have been made and I agree that Johnson has made some weird and fanciful comments and handled it strangely at times. As an NHS worker this hasn't always filled us with confidence. My point, and I accept it's subjective is what would labour have done different and had they been in power would the same people who seem to be so keen to knock the ministers and everything the government is/isn't doing have been equally critical if their party (it's clearly apparent they aren't Tory supporters) have been supportive and less likely to complain?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think we need to deal with the reality of the situation instead of absolving one party because you assume another wouldn't have done any better. I told you what I think should have been done differently but I'm certainly not able to claim that Labour would have done it any more than the Conservatives did. It's ludicrous to say that people can't criticise the government unless they are Tory supporters.

My point is there are some that seem to simply criticise the ministers (especially at briefings) and their own agenda has been clear to see. I'll leave it there but aside from that and although it's clearly not coming over I am agreeing with a lot of your points

 

[MegaSteve]

Is he the one that was fired for leaking national security secrets?

I don't believe anyone has openly said so...
But, then again, no one has exactly denied it either...

He really shouldn't be anywhere near cabinet...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I agree mistakes have been made and I agree that Johnson has made some weird and fanciful comments and handled it strangely at times. As an NHS worker this hasn't always filled us with confidence. My point, and I accept it's subjective is what would labour have done different and had they been in power would the same people who seem to be so keen to knock the ministers and everything the government is/isn't doing have been equally critical if their party (it's clearly apparent they aren't Tory supporters) have been supportive and less likely to complain?

Another poor post judging other posters by your standard.

Once again, nobody has ever, EVER, tried or attempted to to even insinuate Labour or any other Party would of done better.

You are playing silh and failing badly.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I don't believe anyone has openly said so...
But, then again, no one has exactly denied it either...

He really shouldn't be anywhere near cabinet...

Just the statement from Theresa May at the time:

In a meeting with Mr Williamson on Wednesday evening, Theresa May told him she had information that provided "compelling evidence" that he was responsible for the unauthorised disclosure.

In a letter confirming his dismissal, she said: "No other, credible version of events to explain this leak has been identified."

 

[rudebhoy]

Just the statement from Theresa May at the time:

In a meeting with Mr Williamson on Wednesday evening, Theresa May told him she had information that provided "compelling evidence" that he was responsible for the unauthorised disclosure.

In a letter confirming his dismissal, she said: "No other, credible version of events to explain this leak has been identified."

He should have been standing trial for leaking state secrets, instead he sits on the naughty step for a couple of months, then walks back into Cabinet. It's a funny old world...

 

[huds1475]

It's ludicrous to say that people can't criticise the government unless they are Tory supporters.

Not sure, could be wrong, anyone has said that.

But a balanced commentary will always be more respected than a one-sided one, irrespective of a persons political leanings.

?