Club competition ties VS Joe public member

[guest100718]

I'd have got angry about it on the Internet.

 

[Simbo]

the players that are playing in club ties should also show the same respect and etiquette to others golfers on the course. Asking to be let through simply because they are playing a tie when it's quite clear we ourselves are waiting is disrespectful and arrogant.

 

[Slab]

A supplementary is not the same as people playing in club knockouts - I'm not sure the relevance and when someone is doing a supplementary card it's mainly in a 3/4 ball and it's also going to take a little bit longer because they are having to putt everything out so I'm not sure why supplementary cards have been brought into it

The OP was talking about ties/matchplay club KO ties which in most clubs are played when the competitiors can arrange the tie and when they do play because of gimmies etc are regualry the quicker groups on the course

So because they are 1. Playing in an official Club KO and 2. They are generally the quicker groups - for me they will get priority on the course and will be allowed through by any group that they get stuck behind due to any reason. That then falls in with most clubs guidelines in Regards priority on the course and also the R&A guidelines on pace of play and priority on the course. Any group playing a friendly bounce game and not allowing a "Club Official KO match" through for me is showing poor etiquette just as anyone who doesn't let a quicker group through is showing poor etiquette

The relevance is that these ties don't have a competition priority from the club, (so your reason 1 doesn't make sense) so the basis for the etiquette you've chosen to let them through on can only be based on the level of importance of the round of golf i.e their round is more important than yours

For your etiquette to withstand scrutiny then you must therefore let all groups through that meet the above criteria, otherwise its just piecemeal etiquette, to be used when it suits you

A group marking one or more supplementary cards is more important than one of general play and should then be offered the same option to play through (but I'm guessing you wouldn't)

Sorry but competition rounds are not faster than general play, regardless of gimmes (which as I'm sure you know are often given in social golf as well, so your reason 2 just doesn't make sense to me either)

Its also clear now that these KO groups were 4-balls & that the lead one wanted passed a faster 2-ball!


It seems like 'let them trough' is the PC answer rather than an equitable etiquette answer

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The relevance is that these ties don't have a competition priority from the club, (so your reason 1 doesn't make sense) so the basis for the etiquette you've chosen to let them through on can only be based on the level of importance of the round of golf i.e their round is more important than yours

Any competition being played on the golf course for me as priority on the course

If they are playing a club KO comp then their round is more important than mine if I'm playing social so would let them through

For your etiquette to withstand scrutiny then you must therefore let all groups through that meet the above criteria, otherwise its just piecemeal etiquette, to be used when it suits you

I do let any group through that is 1. Playing a comp , and is being held up by my group 2. Is playing any round but is also quicker than my group

A group marking one or more supplementary cards is more important than one of general play and should then be offered the same option to play through (but I'm guessing you wouldn't)

If they are being held up by my group then I would let them through because as in the R&A etiquette guidelines priority is determined by pace of play and they are playing quicker then go through

Sorry but competition rounds are not faster than general play, regardless of gimmes (which as I'm sure you know are often given in social golf as well, so your reason 2 just doesn't make sense to me either)

Sorry but every single KO round I have played has always been considerably quicker when playing singles or Foursomes or Greensomes KO - every single time.

Its also clear now that these KO groups were 4-balls & that the lead one wanted passed a faster 2-ball!


It seems like 'let them trough' is the PC answer rather than an equitable etiquette answer

Let people through isn't a PC answer - it's showing good common sense and etiquette on the golf course - I will never ever understand why a group won't let a quicker group through - maybe it's some macho thing or entitlement thing but it's clear it still very evident , even more so when they are playing a competition that is administered by the club

 

[Deleted member 16999]

the players that are playing in club ties should also show the same respect and etiquette to others golfers on the course. Asking to be let through simply because they are playing a tie when it's quite clear we ourselves are waiting is disrespectful and arrogant.

Surely if they asked (your words) and explained (your words) and you politely discussed it with them, why are they being disrespectful and arrogant?

If they, like the majority on here, believe they have a priority and believe the people ahead will let them through for the same reason, what are they doing wrong?

 

[Slab]

Any competition being played on the golf course for me as priority on the course

If they are playing a club KO comp then their round is more important than mine if I'm playing social so would let them through



I do let any group through that is 1. Playing a comp , and is being held up by my group 2. Is playing any round but is also quicker than my group


If they are being held up by my group then I would let them through because as in the R&A etiquette guidelines priority is determined by pace of play and they are playing quicker then go through



Sorry but every single KO round I have played has always been considerably quicker when playing singles or Foursomes or Greensomes KO - every single time.



Let people through isn't a PC answer - it's showing good common sense and etiquette on the golf course - I will never ever understand why a group won't let a quicker group through - maybe it's some macho thing or entitlement thing but it's clear it still very evident , even more so when they are playing a competition that is administered by the club

Ah c'mon now you cant just conveniently forget that its not a faster group behind you (and if it mattered, its also not your group that's holding them up)

I'm happy to let faster groups through & will continue to do so, that's not what this thread is about (as has been pointed out already)

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ah c'mon now you cant just conveniently forget that its not a faster group behind you (and if it mattered, its also not your group that's holding them up)

I'm happy to let faster groups through & will continue to do so, that's not what this thread is about (as has been pointed out already)

From the opening post he's stated the 4 Ball ties were quicker than 2 Balls, otherwise they wouldn't of got into this situation.

 

[Jates12]

All matches at my club have priority. A match has more significance to the players than just a regular bounce game. I would always let them through and IMO so should everyone.

 

[patricks148]

I played in a club knock out again last night. The group in front of us included the Club president and his guests they had just tee'd off the first(4 ball) after he congratulated me on my win in the club champs, he said you two will be playing a tie, go straight though on the first, so they stood aside. we got though 3 other groups on the course all other two balls and TBH none of them were within a hole of us as we finished on the 18th.
I didn't feel better than any of those groups we went though or even had to ask.. why because its club policy and its the sensible thing to do.

 

[Simbo]

From the opening post he's stated the 4 Ball ties were quicker than 2 Balls, otherwise they wouldn't of got into this situation.

No I never, where did I say that?
From my group back we were pretty much out one after the other, when the 2 ball at the back of me let the first tie through at 7/8 I also let them hrough at 9.
I was then behind 2 fourballs for the next 4 holes when the group behind came up and wanted to be let through as they were playing a tie, despite him knowing we had been bumper to bumper almost all the way round and he could see there was nowhere for him to go and we were waiting aswell.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Just a general question.......

Typical Saturday morning, course is jam packed with 4balls apart from a 2ball behind you. You are waiting pretty much all the time as is the group in front of you and the group in front of them etc.

Do you let the 2ball through?

 

[Region3]

From the opening post he's stated the 4 Ball ties were quicker than 2 Balls, otherwise they wouldn't of got into this situation.

I've just re-read it and can't see where he said 4-balls were quicker than 2-balls. They got into the situation (where the issue isn't perceived slow play) because the 4-ball in front of everyone weren't letting anyone through.

The group holding up (relatively) the course was a 4-ball.
OP was a 2-ball in the queue behind.
The guy that got upset at not being let through by a 2-ball was in a 4-ball.

Assuming the 4-ball in front aren't letting anyone through (fair assumption since they'd had the chance to let both a faster 2-ball through AND a club competition match and hadn't) then if the OP lets all the ties through he's now behind 5 x 4-balls and his round will take around 40 minutes longer. Each of the ties will finish 10 minutes earlier.

It might be "the rules", but it certainly has nothing to do with common sense.

IMO of course, which is ever more frequently different to that of most other people.

 

[Region3]

Just a general question.......

Typical Saturday morning, course is jam packed with 4balls apart from a 2ball behind you. You are waiting pretty much all the time as is the group in front of you and the group in front of them etc.

Do you let the 2ball through?

Is it a tie?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Is it a tie?

Knob!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just a general question.......

Typical Saturday morning, course is jam packed with 4balls apart from a 2ball behind you. You are waiting pretty much all the time as is the group in front of you and the group in front of them etc.

Do you let the 2ball through?

Yes and we have done before but it is very rare that people play in two balls on a Saturday morning - our club suggest the preference is three or fourball but nothing to stop a two ball having a match. I have done it myself and been let through 5 groups on a Saturday with no issue at all from anyone. All done politely and respectfully with no issue

The OP clearly had his back up from the start when the ex captain in the shop mentioned about the ties with the response "they pay the same money as me" so straight away there was going to be an issue

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Yes and we have done before but it is very rare that people play in two balls on a Saturday morning - our club suggest the preference is three or fourball but nothing to stop a two ball having a match. I have done it myself and been let through 5 groups on a Saturday with no issue at all from anyone. All done politely and respectfully with no issue

The OP clearly had his back up from the start when the ex captain in the shop mentioned about the ties with the response "they pay the same money as me" so straight away there was going to be an issue

Ok, let's look at the maths then.

2 ball gets called through by 5 groups of 4 balls and saves 5 minutes on their round each time = cumulative time saved 5x5x2 = 50 mins

5 x 4balls have to wait 5 mins each time the 2 ball goes through = cumulative time lost 5x5x4 = 100 mins

Still think calling through is the correct solution?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

No I never, where did I say that?
From my group back we were pretty much out one after the other, when the 2 ball at the back of me let the first tie through at 7/8 I also let them hrough at 9.
I was then behind 2 fourballs for the next 4 holes when the group behind came up and wanted to be let through as they were playing a tie, despite him knowing we had been bumper to bumper almost all the way round and he could see there was nowhere for him to go and we were waiting aswell.

You said when you went out you had 4 ties behind you, then you said the 2 ball behind you let a tie through, so were the 2 ball behind you a tie or not?

I took it they were and they let another 2 ball through and you did, then you said you were behind 2 4balls, what was the format of theses ties? Some confusion between what and who were 4 balls?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Just a general question.......

Typical Saturday morning, course is jam packed with 4balls apart from a 2ball behind you. You are waiting pretty much all the time as is the group in front of you and the group in front of them etc.

Do you let the 2ball through?

No, but that's a diferent scenario to the op,

Did you think the guys in a comp in the op were a 2 ball or 4 ball?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Ok, let's look at the maths then.

2 ball gets called through by 5 groups of 4 balls and saves 5 minutes on their round each time = cumulative time saved 5x5x2 = 50 mins

5 x 4balls have to wait 5 mins each time the 2 ball goes through = cumulative time lost 5x5x4 = 100 mins

Still think calling through is the correct solution?

Sorry but it never works like that - and it never takes more than 5 mins to let someone through if done properly , should take a couple of mins and players can still play on the hole at the same time

 

[ger147]

the players that are playing in club ties should also show the same respect and etiquette to others golfers on the course. Asking to be let through simply because they are playing a tie when it's quite clear we ourselves are waiting is disrespectful and arrogant.

I can't comment for any other club but it's part of the rules at my club i.e. ties have priority, hence they would not be being disrespectful or arrogant but simply following the rules.