Club competition ties VS Joe public member

[patricks148]

More crap!!
This is exactly about certain parts of the club thinking they have more rights! Why should someone playing a glorified bounce game automatically expecting someone just to step aside so they can play through?
Who said I felt left out? I do play in them and I don't think I own the course when I do!

i would calm yourself down if i were you.
if you were unhappy about letting club ties though you should have told the Ex Club Captain and had a go at him rather than coming on here crying about letting a couple of games though. it a common occurrence at most clubs is to give ties priority and none of those playing in them thinks they are better than you or have more rights than you.

I would suggest these are not glorified bounce games but club comps with Trophies at stake, or if its down in England Board comps.

I have never come across anyone that had a problem or a chip on their shoulder like you about this.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Crap!
That group in front of me would have had to let through possibly 5 quicker groups when they were quite easily within their stipulated time limit, had them all through and they've added an hour to their own time. All that does is flick the slow play argument on its head and you now have 4 guys complaining they are being harassed round the course although they would have completed the round in given time if they didn't have to stand aside every second hole to let groups through. This is a major issue in the slow play argument to me, people getting labelled and harassed as being slow when they actually aren't. It's just some groups are really quick.

"Stipulated time limit" - for a fourball maybe ? But how about for a two ball ? Or a three ball ? Does that mean if a group has lost three holes to the group in front and there is a queue behind them they don't have to let anyone through because they are on "stipulated time limit"

The simple most common sense method is keeping up with the group in front - if there are clearly quicker groups behind regardless of any time limits then simply let them through - done correctly shouldn't affect the pace of play for the group letting people through.

 

[Simbo]

i would calm yourself down if i were you.
if you were unhappy about letting club ties though you should have told the Ex Club Captain and had a go at him rather than coming on here crying about letting a couple of games though. it a common occurrence at most clubs is to give ties priority and none of those playing in them thinks they are better than you or have more rights than you.

I would suggest these are not glorified bounce games but club comps with Trophies at stake, or if its down in England Board comps.

I have never come across anyone that had a problem or a chip on their shoulder like you about this.

You're not me though, and I'm fairly calm, just didn't appreciate your attempt at a smarty pants answer. And you're wrong, this guy and his group clearly thought he was entitled to act like an arrogant person despite him being able to clearly see that we were waiting aswell, just because he was playing a tie
Maybe you've never met someone who hasn't said about it, That's probably because most people don't have the stomach to say anything about it.

"Stipulated time limit" - for a fourball maybe ? But how about for a two ball ? Or a three ball ? Does that mean if a group has lost three holes to the group in front and there is a queue behind them they don't have to let anyone through because they are on "stipulated time limit"

The simple most common sense method is keeping up with the group in front - if there are clearly quicker groups behind regardless of any time limits then simply let them through - done correctly shouldn't affect the pace of play for the group letting people through.

Iv already said this wasn't about slow play, its about people acting like they own the course because they are playing a tie. But yeah, stipulated time, the time the golf club recommend you go round in. This 4 ball were easily within 2 ball pace yet you still want them to stand aside while 4 or 5 groups play though.
If you're driving your car along the road in a 30 limit, doing 30, like the law says you can and someone comes up behind you from nowhere, clearly over the speed limit, do you pull over and let them past? Then 2 mins later for his mate? Or do you speed up, break the law and catch up with whoever is in front of you because " that's the common sense" thing to do so you don't hold all the traffic up and cause a traffic jam?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You're not me though, and I'm fairly calm, just didn't appreciate your attempt at a smarty pants answer. And you're wrong, this guy and his group clearly thought he was entitled to act like an arrogant person despite him being able to clearly see that we were waiting aswell, just because he was playing a tie
Maybe you've never met someone who hasn't said about it, That's probably because most people don't have the stomach to say anything about it.

Iv already said this wasn't about slow play, its about people acting like they own the course because they are playing a tie. But yeah, stipulated time, the time the golf club recommend you go round in. This 4 ball were easily within 2 ball pace yet you still want them to stand aside while 4 or 5 groups play though.
If you're driving your car along the road in a 30 limit, doing 30, like the law says you can and someone comes up behind you from nowhere, clearly over the speed limit, do you pull over and let them past? Then 2 mins later for his mate? Or do you speed up, break the law and catch up with whoever is in front of you because " that's the common sense" thing to do so you don't hold all the traffic up and cause a traffic jam?

Car analogys are irrelevant - speed limits on roads are irrelevant

If a fourball are holding up a 2 ball it's deemed to be good etiquette to let them through

As the R&A states - the priority on the course is determined by the groups pace of play. The quicker groups should have priority and that's also common sense.

If you don't then you have queues of groups behind you getting held up - regardless of any stipulated pace. Holding quicker groups up on the course imo it poor etiquette - even more so if there is space in front

 

[Simbo]

Everything is irrelevant if it doesn't agree with your opinion eh. Like iv already said this isn't about slow play, so your crusade on that can wait for another thread on it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Everything is irrelevant if it doesn't agree with your opinion eh. Like iv already said this isn't about slow play, so your crusade on that can wait for another thread on it.

Its irrelevant because there isn't speed limits on a golf course that people must play too

And it's also not talking about slow play

It's about etiquette in letting through groups that are playing quicker than other groups - that's not saying they are playing slow.

If you are holding up a group behind then etiquette for me means you let them through - same as if you were being held up - unfortunately not enough people do this because they don't believe people should be allowed to go through them.

If I'm in a group that is holding another group then i let them through - simple as that , irrelevant on what comp they are playing

This morning I was in a three ball stuck behind a fourball who weren't going to let us through because they are that sort of people - a two ball came up behind us - we let them through as soon as possible even though I know they would get held up - for me that's how you act on a course when people play at differing paces.

FOr me you had a quicker group behind you and they were also playing a club KO and you didn't let them through - that imo is poor etiquette regardless of what is in front of you. ANd you have already posted you contempt about the comp by calling the matches "glorified bounce games" when clearly they are officials Club KO

 

[Simbo]

I had already let a group through which resulted in 45 mins to play 2.5 holes because I let them through when we ourselves were waiting because "it's the done thing" I didn't have a quicker group than me behind me I just had a slower one than me in front. What's the point in me letting a group through for them to go straight into a traffic jam and I'm another hole down? If the 4 ball at the front weren't going to let me through 8 holes ago they probably aren't going to let anyone else through either.
Iv got a missus and kids I want to go home and see aswell, my contempt isn't for club competitions it's for people who think they own the course while playing them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As I said - what's in front is irrelevant, if you do your bit then no fingers can be pointed towards you and instead aimed towards the fourball holding everyone up

 

[DCB]

It's a game that we play for enjoyment. Take a step back, breathe, enjoy your golf. Don't get caught up in petty squabbles about how the club is run. Go with the flow and enjoy your game. If you go out raging about something like this you're never going to play well and enjoy the round.

 

[Simbo]

As I said - what's in front is irrelevant, if you do your bit then no fingers can be pointed towards you and instead aimed towards the fourball holding everyone up

It's going to take a bit of a doughnut to point at the group at the back and blame them for holding people up.

 

[ExRabbit]

As I said - what's in front is irrelevant, if you do your bit then no fingers can be pointed towards you and instead aimed towards the fourball holding everyone up

How do you know that the OP was slower than the group behind? His group may have zoomed away from the group behind given the chance. As a fairly quick player I've often been in a 4-ball being held up by a 2-ball who have clear air in front of them.

 

[Slab]

I think it’s an interesting thread that’s being derailed somewhat by talk of slow play

Simbo correct me if I’m wrong but the way I see it is:

4-ball A are out playing at good pace (for a 4-ball)
2 ball B are out having a social game (Simbo's group)
2-ball C, are playing knock out match
2-ball D & E are also playing their knock out match’s

• 2-balls C,D,E are not playing with a reserved/blocked tee. Their tee time being included as part of the general bookings/tee order for that day.
• 2-balls C,D & E are not playing against each other.
• It is simply by chance that their ties are going out one after another (Players in the overall knockout comp will often not play their ties in the same week let alone the same day)
• There is no prize for winning your tie, its purpose is simply to eliminate players until two remain in the overall comp.
• Your performance good or bad will not affect your handicap.
• The competition committee may not even necessarily be on site unless by coincidence...
• It is debatable if these insulated ties even constitute a proper comp as most layman golfers would describe a golf competition

2-ball B are being delayed by 4-ball A but are not being let through to pass
2-balls C, D & E are (obviously) also being delayed by 4-ball A (there is no indication that 2-ball B are delaying anyone)

2-ball B lets 2-ball C pass but 4-ball A does not let 2-ball C pass
2-ball D & E are now directly behind 2-ball B

Can 2-balls D & E in turn each tell 2-ball B to stand aside and let them each play through based simply on the status of their round being an elimination tie?
(it is suggested in the OP that ties have no additional priority on this course so the point for debate is simply about whether an etiquette entitlement to pass exists in this scenario versus the obvious impact to 2-ball B’s overall round time of letting several groups through once 2-ball B knew that 4-Ball A did not let 2-ball C pass)



For me, once one tie had been let through and not allowed any further and fading light/weather was not an issue in preventing round completion, then I really don’t see any purpose in letting more through and if the 2-ball D tie want to get a strop on about it then that’s poor from them and a very insular point of view

If it is simply that the ‘tie’ status i.e a meaningful game rather than a social game, that gives it a higher etiquette standing then ask yourself this:
Would you also let the same several 2-balls through in the above scenario if they were all submitting supplementary cards with no tie at stake? (for surely in the Top Trumps of golf etiquette a supplementary round beats a social round )

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think it’s an interesting thread that’s being derailed somewhat by talk of slow play

Simbo correct me if I’m wrong but the way I see it is:

4-ball A are out playing at good pace (for a 4-ball)
2 ball B are out having a social game (Simbo's group)
2-ball C, are playing knock out match
2-ball D & E are also playing their knock out match’s

• 2-balls C,D,E are not playing with a reserved/blocked tee. Their tee time being included as part of the general bookings/tee order for that day.
• 2-balls C,D & E are not playing against each other.
• It is simply by chance that their ties are going out one after another (Players in the overall knockout comp will often not play their ties in the same week let alone the same day)
• There is no prize for winning your tie, its purpose is simply to eliminate players until two remain in the overall comp.
• Your performance good or bad will not affect your handicap.
• The competition committee may not even necessarily be on site unless by coincidence...
• It is debatable if these insulated ties even constitute a proper comp as most layman golfers would describe a golf competition

2-ball B are being delayed by 4-ball A but are not being let through to pass
2-balls C, D & E are (obviously) also being delayed by 4-ball A (there is no indication that 2-ball B are delaying anyone)

2-ball B lets 2-ball C pass but 4-ball A does not let 2-ball C pass
2-ball D & E are now directly behind 2-ball B

Can 2-balls D & E in turn each tell 2-ball B to stand aside and let them each play through based simply on the status of their round being an elimination tie?
(it is suggested in the OP that ties have no additional priority on this course so the point for debate is simply about whether an etiquette entitlement to pass exists in this scenario versus the obvious impact to 2-ball B’s overall round time of letting several groups through once 2-ball B knew that 4-Ball A did not let 2-ball C pass)



For me, once one tie had been let through and not allowed any further and fading light/weather was not an issue in preventing round completion, then I really don’t see any purpose in letting more through and if the 2-ball D tie want to get a strop on about it then that’s poor from them and a very insular point of view

If it is simply that the ‘tie’ status i.e a meaningful game rather than a social game, that gives it a higher etiquette standing then ask yourself this:
Would you also let the same several 2-balls through in the above scenario if they were all submitting supplementary cards with no tie at stake? (for surely in the Top Trumps of golf etiquette a supplementary round beats a social round )

For me its a simple thing - if people behind you are in a club knockout competition and they are having to wait then will always let them through regardless of how quick im going or whats in front or how many of them they ar- they are playing in a comp , im playing in a friendly knock - they for me have priority on the course

 

[Simbo]

I think it’s an interesting thread that’s being derailed somewhat by talk of slow play

Simbo correct me if I’m wrong but the way I see it is:

4-ball A are out playing at good pace (for a 4-ball)
2 ball B are out having a social game (Simbo's group)
2-ball C, are playing knock out match
2-ball D & E are also playing their knock out match’s

• 2-balls C,D,E are not playing with a reserved/blocked tee. Their tee time being included as part of the general bookings/tee order for that day.
• 2-balls C,D & E are not playing against each other.
• It is simply by chance that their ties are going out one after another (Players in the overall knockout comp will often not play their ties in the same week let alone the same day)
• There is no prize for winning your tie, its purpose is simply to eliminate players until two remain in the overall comp.
• Your performance good or bad will not affect your handicap.
• The competition committee may not even necessarily be on site unless by coincidence...
• It is debatable if these insulated ties even constitute a proper comp as most layman golfers would describe a golf competition

2-ball B are being delayed by 4-ball A but are not being let through to pass
2-balls C, D & E are (obviously) also being delayed by 4-ball A (there is no indication that 2-ball B are delaying anyone)

2-ball B lets 2-ball C pass but 4-ball A does not let 2-ball C pass
2-ball D & E are now directly behind 2-ball B

Can 2-balls D & E in turn each tell 2-ball B to stand aside and let them each play through based simply on the status of their round being an elimination tie?
(it is suggested in the OP that ties have no additional priority on this course so the point for debate is simply about whether an etiquette entitlement to pass exists in this scenario versus the obvious impact to 2-ball B’s overall round time of letting several groups through once 2-ball B knew that 4-Ball A did not let 2-ball C pass)



For me, once one tie had been let through and not allowed any further and fading light/weather was not an issue in preventing round completion, then I really don’t see any purpose in letting more through and if the 2-ball D tie want to get a strop on about it then that’s poor from them and a very insular point of view

If it is simply that the ‘tie’ status i.e a meaningful game rather than a social game, that gives it a higher etiquette standing then ask yourself this:
Would you also let the same several 2-balls through in the above scenario if they were all submitting supplementary cards with no tie at stake? (for surely in the Top Trumps of golf etiquette a supplementary round beats a social round )

Pretty much correct on all accounts except on leaving the first tee group C behind us consisted of a member and a visitor playing a social game. Groups d,e and f were playing the knockout and were 4 balls not 2 balls. So the visitor and his member may have had the same arrogant jerk do the same to them as he done to us, how does that look for a visitor playing with his friend who may be thinking of joining my club?
One knockout game was playing greensomes,( the group which we let through) the others playing doubles. I never said at any time the knockouts games were a 2 ball.
Sure the 4 ball could have let us through before all this happened but as Iv said, they weren't slow, they had covered the first 8 holes in around 1.15/1.20. They deserve to enjoy their game aswell and I'm not harassing people to go round any quicker than that.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Slab, If C & D were semi-finals of said comp would you let one through and not the next or because it's still just a tie meeting the same criteria as an early round, have the same attitude?

Phil is correct imo.

 

[GeeJay]

I think I would have asked in the pro shop if we could start on the 10th.

If the pace of play for my group (and therefore the groups behind) is effectively being controlled by the group in front that is not letting anyone through, who decides which of the groups behind is faster?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

there is no reason that letting a single should hold a 4 ball!!! we always let faster groups though and play the 2nd shots onto the green let the single putt out, and away they go. while we finish the hole they are on the next tee, played and away before we have putted out as a 4 ball. simple

Steady on old boy, are you suggesting that golfers apply some ancient common sense.
That is a big ask for many modern players.

 

[Slab]

Slab, If C & D were semi-finals of said comp would you let one through and not the next or because it's still just a tie meeting the same criteria as an early round, have the same attitude?

Phil is correct imo.

If the club reserve/block the tee for semi-finals to take place at the same time then they've attached a greater importance to a latter round so I think if i'd let one through I'd let both through
If they are there just by chance among the general play for the day then the two groups have no tangible connection as far as a duel priority on the course is concerned



I don't seriously think anyone will let another group have priority on a general play day if the only stated reason is that there is a supplementary card/s among them, but clearly the round is more important than a group on general play, so whats the difference from that to an elimination tie

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If the club reserve/block the tee for semi-finals to take place at the same time then they've attached a greater importance to a latter round so I think if i'd let one through I'd let both through
If they are there just by chance among the general play for the day then the two groups have no tangible connection as far as a duel priority on the course is concerned



I don't seriously think anyone will let another group have priority on a general play day if the only stated reason is that there is a supplementary card/s among them, but clearly the round is more important than a group on general play, so whats the difference from that to an elimination tie

A supplementary is not the same as people playing in club knockouts - I'm not sure the relevance and when someone is doing a supplementary card it's mainly in a 3/4 ball and it's also going to take a little bit longer because they are having to putt everything out so I'm not sure why supplementary cards have been brought into it

The OP was talking about ties/matchplay club KO ties which in most clubs are played when the competitiors can arrange the tie and when they do play because of gimmies etc are regualry the quicker groups on the course

So because they are 1. Playing in an official Club KO and 2. They are generally the quicker groups - for me they will get priority on the course and will be allowed through by any group that they get stuck behind due to any reason. That then falls in with most clubs guidelines in Regards priority on the course and also the R&A guidelines on pace of play and priority on the course. Any group playing a friendly bounce game and not allowing a "Club Official KO match" through for me is showing poor etiquette just as anyone who doesn't let a quicker group through is showing poor etiquette

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If the club reserve/block the tee for semi-finals to take place at the same time then they've attached a greater importance to a latter round so I think if i'd let one through I'd let both through
If they are there just by chance among the general play for the day then the two groups have no tangible connection as far as a duel priority on the course is concerned



I don't seriously think anyone will let another group have priority on a general play day if the only stated reason is that there is a supplementary card/s among them, but clearly the round is more important than a group on general play, so whats the difference from that to an elimination tie

Phil's answered, plus anyone submitting a supplementary card will be putting out, the knockouts are likely to have gimmees or even holes won on the Tee (somebody messing up drives and walking the hole etc) so coukd even increase their speed.