Clocks go back this weekend!

[CliveW]

Didn't the new drink drive laws come into force at the same time though, so the numbers could be skewed due to this initiative

... And there were far fewer cars on the road then.

 

[delc]

Didn't the new drink drive laws come into force at the same time though, so the numbers could be skewed due to this initiative

Didn't think even the Scots got bladdered by school closing time! :mmm:

P.S. Their drink driving laws are now even stricter than the English ones. I had to remember that when I went on a holiday up there a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Slab]

I think the arguments on both sides are simply whatever works best for individuals (or their business) interests will determine what they'll support regardless of the impact to others

I read that the guy who thought the idea up for the Uk was a golfer and wanted to play longer at dusk!

A farmer will still work around daylight regardless of what time the clock says it is

And as we continue to move towards a 24 hour society there seems less point in making any change

Anyway we don't change the clocks here so for me it means a midweek footie is on too late during GMT so for that reason lets have triple BST!

 

[delc]

... And there were far fewer cars on the road then.

Certainly fewer 'Chelsea Tractors' for running children to school in!

 

[Slab]

Didn't think even the Scots got drunk by school closing time! :mmm:

P.S. Their drink driving laws are now even stricter than the English ones. I had to remember that when I went on a holiday up there a couple of weeks ago.

You've missed my point, probably my fault. Might a fundamental attitudinal change in driving habits and behaviour have led to a misrepresentation of the effects on traffic accident numbers during the three year trial of leaving the clocks on BST?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I always have a wee smile when this comes up every year.

Nobody gains or loses any time or daylight.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Are we British just born pessimists or depressives? The reason I say that is that this debate always gets bogged down in the argument about what to do in the winter. We seem to always be obsessed with the problems changing the clocks may cause rather than the real benefits it can bring. Winter is rubbish at our latitude. There isn't enough daylight. There will always be different views north and south because we are basically a long thin country and we can argue all day about how to set the clocks to get the best out of the few hours daylight but whatever we do then some will be in disagreement.

The debate should be about how to best make use of the abundance of daylight we get in the summer months. Double summer time (leaving the drab winter months as is) means lighter nights across the whole summer for all sorts of benefits (including golf) and all we lose is light in the very early morning that currently benefits very few. The slight trade off would be a dark morning rush hour in October for many which for 6 months with an hour extra in the evening is a pretty good trade off. To me it's just a no brainer.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Are we British just born pessimists or depressives? The reason I say that is that this debate always gets bogged down in the argument about what to do in the winter. We seem to always be obsessed with the problems changing the clocks may cause rather than the real benefits it can bring. Winter is rubbish at our latitude. There isn't enough daylight. There will always be different views north and south because we are basically a long thin country and we can argue all day about how to set the clocks to get the best out of the few hours daylight but whatever we do then some will be in disagreement.

The debate should be about how to best make use of the abundance of daylight we get in the summer months. Double summer time (leaving the drab winter months as is) means lighter nights across the whole summer for all sorts of benefits (including golf) and all we lose is light in the very early morning that currently benefits very few. The slight trade off would be a dark morning rush hour in October for many which for 6 months with an hour extra in the evening is a pretty good trade off. To me it's just a no brainer.

There is a lot of people who rely on light mornings throughout the summer - the countries whole farming industry for a start


Plus there will never be a worthwhile trade off for allowing kids to go to school in the mornings throughout the winter in daylight - if it saves one child then it IMO hands down wins any argument

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

There is a lot of people who rely on light mornings throughout the summer - the countries whole farming industry for a start


Plus there will never be a worthwhile trade off for allowing kids to go to school in the mornings throughout the winter in daylight - if it saves one child then it IMO hands down wins any argument

NOt arguing at all with the second part, but re: the first - farmers stil get teh same number of daylight hours, what a clock says makes no difference surely? Looking as a very much non expert!

 

[Slab]

There is a lot of people who rely on light mornings throughout the summer - the countries whole farming industry for a start


Plus there will never be a worthwhile trade off for allowing kids to go to school in the mornings throughout the winter in daylight - if it saves one child then it IMO hands down wins any argument

Can't disagree with point 2 but point one I don't get

Farmers don't clock in for work, if its light they're working (often earlier) it doesn't matter what time it says on the clock, they don't 'gain' an an hour of daylight no matter what you do with the clocks, the extra daylight just doesn't exist



edit: too slow

 

[Val]

Are we British just born pessimists or depressives? The reason I say that is that this debate always gets bogged down in the argument about what to do in the winter. We seem to always be obsessed with the problems changing the clocks may cause rather than the real benefits it can bring. Winter is rubbish at our latitude. There isn't enough daylight. There will always be different views north and south because we are basically a long thin country and we can argue all day about how to set the clocks to get the best out of the few hours daylight but whatever we do then some will be in disagreement.

The debate should be about how to best make use of the abundance of daylight we get in the summer months. Double summer time (leaving the drab winter months as is) means lighter nights across the whole summer for all sorts of benefits (including golf) and all we lose is light in the very early morning that currently benefits very few. The slight trade off would be a dark morning rush hour in October for many which for 6 months with an hour extra in the evening is a pretty good trade off. To me it's just a no brainer.

What benefits do we get that we don't already have in the summer? Who really needs it light at 11pm or later through the June/July months?

As DfT pointed out, we get the same daylight regardless so lets have more of it in the morning rather than night through the winter.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

NOt arguing at all with the second part, but re: the first - farmers stil get teh same number of daylight hours, what a clock says makes no difference surely? Looking as a very much non expert!

Being honest I don't know ? Maybe early is the best time to milk cows or cultivate the veggies and get the food out to markets and one thing that would please Delc - keep the tractors off the roads during Rush hour ?

But will certainly ask the farmer we play golf with

I like the bright morning in the summer because we play at 6:30 - done by tenish and have the rest of the day with family or work etc

 

[Crazyface]

NOt arguing at all with the second part, but re: the first - farmers stil get teh same number of daylight hours, what a clock says makes no difference surely? Looking as a very much non expert!

+1. And do cows wear watches? "By eck he's late today. I just don't know how he thinks I'll be able to get enough grass down me neck this 'after"

 

[Crazyface]

Being honest I don't know ? Maybe early is the best time to milk cows or cultivate the veggies and get the food out to markets and one thing that would please Delc - keep the tractors off the roads during Rush hour ?

But will certainly ask the farmer we play golf with

I like the bright morning in the summer because we play at 6:30 - done by tenish and have the rest of the day with family or work etc

Ahhh so your the nutters coming off the course as I'm just arriving.

 

[Crazyface]

What benefits do we get that we don't already have in the summer? Who really needs it light at 11pm or later through the June/July months?

As DfT pointed out, we get the same daylight regardless so lets have more of it in the morning rather than night through the winter.

Yeah lets have more daylight when the majority of the population can't put it to good use.

 

[Fyldewhite]

There is a lot of people who rely on light mornings throughout the summer - the countries whole farming industry for a start


Plus there will never be a worthwhile trade off for allowing kids to go to school in the mornings throughout the winter in daylight - if it saves one child then it IMO hands down wins any argument

There you go again, turning it into a debate about winter. Where did I say we should change anything in winter? I said October, one month as against 6 months of increased daylight. If this is an issue then you could have a 2 tiered change of just change back to GMT in September.......may get too complicated though....the system we have now causes enough confusion.

Re farmers.......no they don't.....and an often used argument that has no basis. Farmers work daylight hours. It matters not one hoot what time it says on their watch as to what work they do. Ask yourself.....if farmers didn't wear watches or tell the time would they do anything different?

 

[Fyldewhite]

What benefits do we get that we don't already have in the summer? Who really needs it light at 11pm or later through the June/July months?

Well, for starters, imagine every light bulb in the UK is put on an hour later for 6 months of the year. That saves everyone money, saves energy, is better for the environment. Less crime, more chance to do sport, enjoy the good weather etc etc. It's not just about being light till 11 at night it's about being light till 9 when it currently goes dark at 8, being light till 10 when it currently goes dark at 9 etc. ALL summer.

As DfT pointed out, we get the same daylight regardless so lets have more of it in the morning rather than night through the winter.

Again you are getting drawn into the winter question.....nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How can it cause confusion ? Seems to me to be very simple - clock go forward one month the goes back 6 months later

And even one month of dark mornings when kids go to school is one month too much

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm with Delc on this one. Leave the clocks as they are and let's have slightly lighter nights in the winter. If the Scots want to keep it as it is then their parliament can do their thing and they can remain with the status quo. The current situation suits their demands and their alone, exactly the sort of situation devolution is set up for. We would go to European time, more logical for work as well as for light. Bring it on.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Oh come on Phil, that's like saying we should have 10 mph speed limits everywhere because "one road death is too much". Easy to make it a moral high ground debate but I think that's just an easy smokescreen and not really the issue. I've still to hear one convincing argument that an extra hour's daylight in the evening all summer would not be a good idea. I'm sure we all agree the current DST hour and "light nights" is a good thing.......not many would advocate GMT all year round surely. All GMT+2 in the summer does is make it even better.