Ched Evans

[Simbo]

But the point is that the verdict is based on whether there is enough evidence that he did it, in criminal cases beyond reasonable doubt (in civil on the balance of probabilities), and that leaves a lot of room for 'he did it, but we can't prove it'. Few people who have convictions overturned walk away with a perception of innocence unless someone else is proven to have done it, which is hardly likely here. May not be fair, but a lot of people will think he got away with it. If there had been insufficient evidence to go to retrial at all, I think people would maybe see him as more likely to be innocent. Although the police and prosecution may get their act together for the retrial and do a better job.

That's half the problem with the law, everything gets twisted beyond belief when lawyers get a hold of it. If he's found not guilty then then this "he might have done it but we can't prove it" is nothing more than someone's opinion and guesswork.
Is the "victim" still entitled to remain anonymous if he is found not guilty at the retrial???

 

[Pin-seeker]

Is the "victim" still entitled to remain anonymous if he is found not guilty at the retrial???

I would say so yes.
Because you get the argument that it could stop other victims from coming foward.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

That's half the problem with the law, everything gets twisted beyond belief when lawyers get a hold of it. If he's found not guilty then then this "he might have done it but we can't prove it" is nothing more than someone's opinion and guesswork.
Is the "victim" still entitled to remain anonymous if he is found not guilty at the retrial???

The identity of the alleged victim is irrelevant, at the first trial part of Evan's defence was that she never claimed rape, she went to the police as she'd lost her handbag and couldn't remember anything from the night before, it would be best to let the retrial happen before we start a witch hunt.

 

[Foxholer]

...
More disturbed by the Norwegian verdict agreeing Breivik has been maltreated in jail by being isolated, the guy blew up some people then gunned down 70 odd kids when sane, he should be doing the hardest time there is. Something not right with 'justice' in so many countries but it's a difficult balance to find.

Are you after 'justice' - as defined by a humane/humanitarian society?

Or are you simply after revenge?!

From this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36094575 it would seem that there were parts of his treatment where it was the latter!

 

[Simbo]

The identity of the alleged victim is irrelevant, at the first trial part of Evan's defence was that she never claimed rape, she went to the police as she'd lost her handbag and couldn't remember anything from the night before, it would be best to let the retrial happen before we start a witch hunt.

A witch hunt?? Really?
How is the identity of the victim irrelevant? I merely asked if she was still entitled to anonnimity. Are you saying she has never at any point accused him of raping her??

 

[Deleted member 16999]

A witch hunt?? Really?
How is the identity of the victim irrelevant? I merely asked if she was still entitled to anonnimity. Are you saying she has never at any point accused him of raping her??

Why is her name relevant if this time he is found not guilty, it was a jury that found him guilty. Are you really saying alleged victims shouldn't be allowed to remain anonymous unless you're 16 or 17 years old and have no experience of life I can't actually believe you're asking about anonimity in sexual offences, just like innocent people can be found guilty, guilty people can be found innocent, if he's found not guilty and if the CPS decide she committed an offence she should be done,
He admitted having sex with the girl and she said she never consented, I'm happy to let our legal system run its course

 

[ColchesterFC]

I am not disturbed by the Brevik case. The question of his rights, however defined, should not be dictated by the public revulsion for his crimes. He is going nowhere, will die in prison.

Breivik was sentenced to 21 years, and it can be extended only if he is still deemed a threat. He is still a young man, I would say there is a very good chance he won't die in prison. Though I do hope he never sees freedom again.

I think that there is a much higher chance of Brevik dying in prison if he is taken out of solitary and put in with the general prison population. I'd be fairly sure that there would be a number of other prisoners that would like to have an opportunity to have five minutes alone in the shower block with him and a snooker ball in a sock.

 

[Fish]

I don't care what the retrial produces, he was a predator IMO, he groomed her, he knew her age and took (or tried to) take advantage with his celebrity (kind of) status, he's still guilty in my eyes whatever the new outcome, I just hope that if he unfortunately gets off this he's not allowed to claim anything or sell any stories, but unfortunately being in a nanny state where the criminal is rewarded and the victims are made to feel guilty, that won't happen, will it!

And we wonder why so many crimes, especially one's like this go unreported!

Bloody lefty, tree hugging dogooders strike again, no doubt!

 

[Papas1982]

I don't care what the retrial produces, he was a predator IMO, he groomed her, he knew her age and took (or tried to) take advantage with his celebrity (kind of) status, he's still guilty in my eyes whatever the new outcome, I just hope that if he unfortunately gets off this he's not allowed to claim anything or sell any stories, but unfortunately being in a nanny state where the criminal is rewarded and the victims are made to feel guilty, that won't happen, will it!

And we wonder why so many crimes, especially one's like this go unreported!

Bloody lefty, tree hugging dogooders strike again, no doubt!

She was of legal age was she not?

How did he groom her. He met her once and had his way at a hotel.

Are you thinking of Adam Johnson?

 

[rosecott]

I wonder if Theresa May ordered the quashing of his conviction to take away some of the front page coverage from the EU referendum, Panama Papers and collapsing NHS.

In what way does Teresa May come into it?

There were three judges sitting on the appeal and the decision was from them and them alone.

Perhaps you do not believe in the independence of the judiciary.

Take a pill. It was a joke. The judiciary is not entirely independent, though, although I am sure politicians were not involved in this case.

That must be a very powerful pill to make me see and comprehend your jokes. Where can I buy them? Even if they work only on your posts, they would be invaluable.

 

[Fish]

Are you thinking of Adam Johnson?

Yes 😞

 

[Pin-seeker]

I don't care what the retrial produces, he was a predator IMO, he groomed her, he knew her age and took (or tried to) take advantage with his celebrity (kind of) status, he's still guilty in my eyes whatever the new outcome, I just hope that if he unfortunately gets off this he's not allowed to claim anything or sell any stories, but unfortunately being in a nanny state where the criminal is rewarded and the victims are made to feel guilty, that won't happen, will it!

And we wonder why so many crimes, especially one's like this go unreported!

Bloody lefty, tree hugging dogooders strike again, no doubt!

Knew her age???
Either you're getting mixed up with Adam Johnson or you are just talking rubbish.

 

[Fish]

or you are just talking rubbish.

Well you'd recognise that more than most!

 

[Pin-seeker]

Well you'd recognise that more than most!

Meow Fishy 😂

 

[Simbo]

Why is her name relevant if this time he is found not guilty, it was a jury that found him guilty. Are you really saying alleged victims shouldn't be allowed to remain anonymous unless you're 16 or 17 years old and have no experience of life I can't actually believe you're asking about anonimity in sexual offences, just like innocent people can be found guilty, guilty people can be found innocent, if he's found not guilty and if the CPS decide she committed an offence she should be done,
He admitted having sex with the girl and she said she never consented, I'm happy to let our legal system run its course

I'm not 16 or 17 and have plenty experience in life from the school of hard knocks, wind your neck in a bit.
I asked a genuine question as I don't know whether she is entitled to remain anonymous I'd he's found not guilty. Don't see why she should.

She never said she didn't consent, she said she couldn't remember.

 

[SteveJay]

Understand she was drunk and didn't, and legally couldn't, consent.

What I don't get is all this "his life and career is ruined"......that just bull......if his innocence is confirmed at the re-trial he will soon be back playing football and I can't see him actually noticing the temporary loss of earnings, such is the magnitude of players wages these days.

 

[sev112]

It's a de facto way of finding innocence as our legal system conforms to the Human Right of "innocence until proven guilty" means that not being found guilty equates to innocence. I know you're arguing the legal wording but I don't think that's what anyone here means.

No, that's a massive misunderstanding that is perpetrated by the Media. it is the individual statute (law) itself which deems what the burden or proof is. Under , for example the Health & Safety at Work Act (which is also criminal law) the basis is guilty unless the duty holder can demonstrate that they met the requirement of the law. completely the opposite and part of the reason for the substantial beaurocracy involved in businesses these days,

 

[sev112]

He can't be found innocent, only not guilty, which is not the same thing.

Compensation for wrongful imprisonment is capped at half a million quid.

That's interesting - does that preclude higher damages in the event of a subsequent civil action for example ?

 

[Ethan]

That's interesting - does that preclude higher damages in the event of a subsequent civil action for example ?

The Govt put this cap in around 3 or 4 years ago. If you have done more than 10 years inside you can claim up to £1million.

I doubt you could take a separate civil action.

 

[Slime]

More disturbed by the Norwegian verdict agreeing Breivik has been maltreated in jail by being isolated, the guy blew up some people then gunned down 70 odd kids when sane, he should be doing the hardest time there is. Something not right with 'justice' in so many countries but it's a difficult balance to find.

Wrong ............................ he should be executed!