Ched Evans

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JustOne said:
Only if she says "No."




If she can't remember what she said then there should be reasonable doubt.... possibly even more so considering she'd already had sex with one guy who DIDN'T get done.
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Really? I mean I don't want to sound all old fashioned. But I'd imagine more woman have had sex with one woman at a time. Than finished one off and called "next"!

There re may well be reasonable doubt. But the argument that she's had sex with one so was obviously up for it with the next appears flawed to me.
 
Papas1982 said:
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Really? I mean I don't want to sound all old fashioned. But I'd imagine more woman have had sex with one woman at a time. Than finished one off and called "next"!

There re may well be reasonable doubt. But the argument that she's had sex with one so was obviously up for it with the next appears flawed to me.
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I agree with that - but in the prosecution they stated that she was in no fit state to give consent

The prosecution case was that the victim did not truly consent to sex, and that ‘neither man reasonably believed she was consenting’.

She was so drunk she was in no fit state to say ‘yes’.

So why only one verdict of guilty ?
 
JustOne said:
Only if she says "No."




If she can't remember what she said then there should be reasonable doubt.... possibly even more so considering she'd already had sex with one guy who DIDN'T get done.
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Not true as stated previously on this thread, if a persons is incoherent to answer then it's Rape, the victim doesn't actually have to say the words!
 
Not read the whole thread but in relation to the OP I think he should be allowed to continue in his chosen profession pre prison. It has no relevance to the crime unlike child abuser/teacher etc. Not sure how else the guy could make a living and surely rehabilitation is about criminals being given a second chance and the opportunity to become a worthwhile member of society...part of that is earning a living.

Having seen recently how tough it's proving for my nephew to make a fresh start...how restrictive being out on license is and how difficult the probation service are to deal with then I don't think life will suddenly be a bed of roses for him.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I agree with that - but in the prosecution they stated that she was in no fit state to give consent

The prosecution case was that the victim did not truly consent to sex, and that ‘neither man reasonably believed she was consenting’.

She was so drunk she was in no fit state to say ‘yes’.

So why only one verdict of guilty ?
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my only thought would be that as she travelled with the first bloke it at least appered my consensual. The whole idea of 'joining in' seems vague when out alongside the fact that she wasn't able to give consent.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Where did you get that from ?

That seems different from what i have read

. At this point according to the evidence of both Clayton and Ched the question of whether Ched could “join in” was asked of the complainant, they both said that she replied with a positive “yeah”

I havent seen anywhere that says that his mate said that he didnt ask ?

The hotel room was booked with Evans credit card ? and no idea why he went down the fire escape but is that a sign of guilt ?
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I suggest you try reading the website again, with the blinkers off. You only need to go about a sentence further than what you quoted.

And, yes, I'd suggest that sneaking out the fire escape is a pretty suspicious thing to do.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I suggest you try reading the website again, with the blinkers off. You only need to go about a sentence further than what you quoted.

And, yes, I'd suggest that sneaking out the fire escape is a pretty suspicious thing to do.
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Ah right yes - they couldnt remember who asked the question but both agreed that the question was asked

yes he wanted to avoid the receptionist - not sure why maybe he didnt want them to know he was leaving the room ? It doesnt mean he is guilty because of the way he left.
 
AmandaJR said:
Not read the whole thread but in relation to the OP I think he should be allowed to continue in his chosen profession pre prison. It has no relevance to the crime unlike child abuser/teacher etc. Not sure how else the guy could make a living and surely rehabilitation is about criminals being given a second chance and the opportunity to become a worthwhile member of society...part of that is earning a living.

Having seen recently how tough it's proving for my nephew to make a fresh start...how restrictive being out on license is and how difficult the probation service are to deal with then I don't think life will suddenly be a bed of roses for him.
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I believe it is the profile and lifestyle that is key to the emotion in this case, it may not affect 90 minutes on the pitch but the adoration and doors it opens could be an issue, and surely the first step of rehabilitation is remorse of which he's shown none,
I think some of us will have to agree to disagree,
 
Papas1982 said:
my only thought would be that as she travelled with the first bloke it at least appered my consensual. The whole idea of 'joining in' seems vague when out alongside the fact that she wasn't able to give consent.
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Its one of the most confusing things about it - when i first started to read up on it i didnt at first realise that his friend was found not guilty - for the prosecution to state she was in no fit way to give consent - which is a solid and fair argument but then to only convict one of the men ?
 
Perhaps one of the questions should be why on earth did the other guy get found innocent? Why did the other guy text Evans? Why did he let Evans into the room? Why did he let Evans have sex with her?

Quite frankly, I'd have gone for guilty for both of them. And the court case wasn't a quick 5 mins, thanks very much you're guilty.

So should Evans now be able to resume his career? Since when did it become a life sentence?

All that aside, I think rape should carry a minimum of a 10yr sentence, with no parole till that 10 yrs is spent.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Its one of the most confusing things about it - when i first started to read up on it i didnt at first realise that his friend was found not guilty - for the prosecution to state she was in no fit way to give consent - which is a solid and fair argument but then to only convict one of the men ?
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I do find it weird hiw only one not the other. Unless in court she has said he liked the first bloke. That she had said at some point she'd go back with him. But I have no idea other than that the court have decided her actions (travelling with him) can be considered consent.

Pure people saying abiut him wanting to sneak out. Even if didn't consider it rape. He has a partner and probably wanted to make as little a scene as possible.
 
Papas1982 said:
I do find it weird hiw only one not the other. Unless in court she has said he liked the first bloke. That she had said at some point she'd go back with him. But I have no idea other than that the court have decided her actions (travelling with him) can be considered consent.

Pure people saying abiut him wanting to sneak out. Even if didn't consider it rape. He has a partner and probably wanted to make as little a scene as possible.
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thats the thing - she cant remember anything after 3am before she met the guys - the suspicion being that she was drugged which is all too common these days

And the reason he gave for sneaking out was to do with his g/f
 
Hobbit said:
Perhaps one of the questions should be why on earth did the other guy get found innocent? Why did the other guy text Evans? Why did he let Evans into the room? Why did he let Evans have sex with her?

Quite frankly, I'd have gone for guilty for both of them. And the court case wasn't a quick 5 mins, thanks very much you're guilty.

So should Evans now be able to resume his career? Since when did it become a life sentence?

All that aside, I think rape should carry a minimum of a 10yr sentence, with no parole till that 10 yrs is spent.
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From the account on Evans on website, in my opinion both were guilty of rape. However, the way each came to be in the hotel room with her were very different. Accordingly one got away with it due to "reasonable doubt", whereas there was no doubt about the other.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Or maybe just not have sex with teenagers you find falling down drunk on the street in the early hours.
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Well at the time Evans was 22/23 so will be having sex with people around that age - thats not a crime itself is it.
 
FairwayDodger said:
Or maybe just not have sex with teenagers you find falling down drunk on the street in the early hours.
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Fair and reasonable comment.



What if the guy is also 'falling down drunk' though? Would he be able to press charges if he decided he wasn't in a fit state to consent? Just a thought.
 
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