bluewolf
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Are you forgetting the comments made about Ched Evans girlfriend then?
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Are you forgetting the comments made about Ched Evans girlfriend then?
D
Deleted member 15344
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Ah right sorry :thup:
bladeplayer
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Read this thread with interest for many reasons ,Firstly not getting into the right or wrongs of the case as only 3 people will know what really happened..
I as some will know do door work and have done for years , it often worries when i see women / girls either on the street or even leaving pub/club in drunken condition , i AM NOT saying for a second how much you drink or what you wear gives anyone the RIGHT to do something/anything to you against your wishes ..
We have ages limits for entry into these places for a reason , these age limits are to make sure you are an ADULT and as an adult you are responsible for your own actions ,
if the girl drank so much that she cannot remember what went on, this has to me, be a mitigating circumstance in this case , if she came out and was clear and conesise about what happened against her wishes it would be more clear cut , even still it is word against word , but easier to believe the "victim"
This other guy in the case may not have been found guilty of rape but if the girl (as some have said) consented to go with him ONLY then Evans somehow got involved in the treesome , IF the girl was as unresponsive as she states then this other guy is IMO as guilty of the rape as much as if he (forgive this) held her down ..
I dont know if they raped her or not but surely she did not go out that night on her own ? did her friends let their extremely drunk friend leave with a stranger ?
As i said before i dont know what happened so im just giving my opinions but RESPONSIBILITY for your own actions has to play some part in society and in life , as i have said before nobody has the right to force you to do anything you dont want to , but if someone "cant remember" what happened how can you give evidence ..
As for the question in the OP if you commit a crime and serve the sentence given to you should you be allowed back to the job , its not that clear cut , if your crime can have some bearing on the job , ie if you rob a bank you shouldnt get a job with money & so on if not then yes you should be
I as some will know do door work and have done for years , it often worries when i see women / girls either on the street or even leaving pub/club in drunken condition , i AM NOT saying for a second how much you drink or what you wear gives anyone the RIGHT to do something/anything to you against your wishes ..
We have ages limits for entry into these places for a reason , these age limits are to make sure you are an ADULT and as an adult you are responsible for your own actions ,
if the girl drank so much that she cannot remember what went on, this has to me, be a mitigating circumstance in this case , if she came out and was clear and conesise about what happened against her wishes it would be more clear cut , even still it is word against word , but easier to believe the "victim"
This other guy in the case may not have been found guilty of rape but if the girl (as some have said) consented to go with him ONLY then Evans somehow got involved in the treesome , IF the girl was as unresponsive as she states then this other guy is IMO as guilty of the rape as much as if he (forgive this) held her down ..
I dont know if they raped her or not but surely she did not go out that night on her own ? did her friends let their extremely drunk friend leave with a stranger ?
As i said before i dont know what happened so im just giving my opinions but RESPONSIBILITY for your own actions has to play some part in society and in life , as i have said before nobody has the right to force you to do anything you dont want to , but if someone "cant remember" what happened how can you give evidence ..
As for the question in the OP if you commit a crime and serve the sentence given to you should you be allowed back to the job , its not that clear cut , if your crime can have some bearing on the job , ie if you rob a bank you shouldnt get a job with money & so on if not then yes you should be
FairwayDodger
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Sorry but that doesnt really stop people judging beforehand and not sure whats funny ?
If a footballer is accused of rape and his name is in the papers then there will be people that believe he is guilty already - unless you think they dont ?
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Hey don't worry FD, I am sure there would be just as much willingness on this forum to challenge a legal decision if the positions were reversed and a man had been found not guilty despite the fact the woman still said she was raped.
The rape threads on this forum (and there's a phrase I never hoped I'd be typing) don't seem to bring out the best in people really and I do wonder what any prospective advertisers who read these kind of threads must think.
I'm not one for censorship (but then again I have been 100 times more offended by some of the stuff I read in these rape threads and in others regarding things like foreign policy than I would be if someone used a mild swear word) but you do wonder why these threads are started at times. As if it's for a sensible and informed debate then best of luck with that.
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D
Deleted member 15344
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Hey don't worry FD, I am sure there would be just as much willingness on this forum to challenge a legal decision if the positions were reversed and a man had been found not guilty despite the fact the woman still said she was raped.
The rape threads on this forum (and there's a phrase I never hoped I'd be typing) don't seem to bring out the best in people really and I do wonder what any prospective advertisers who read these kind of threads must think.
If there is doubt in the verdict then yes there would be willingness to challenge. But dont let that stop you from making judgements
Maybe its just me but i think this debate has been handled maturely without it descending into tit for tat or going to the stage of a slanging match.
FairwayDodger
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The funny thing is your staunch support for a convicted rapist to the exclusion of actual facts. Like how hard it is to secure a rape conviction in reality versus your conceit that juries have decided the accused is guilty before the trial even starts.
Liverpoolphil, based on the rapists website, chooses to support the rapist over the victim, a jury and a panel of appeal court judges who decided there were no grounds for appeal.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
Hey don't worry FD, I am sure there would be just as much willingness on this forum to challenge a legal decision if the positions were reversed and a man had been found not guilty despite the fact the woman still said she was raped.
The rape threads on this forum (and there's a phrase I never hoped I'd be typing) don't seem to bring out the best in people really and I do wonder what any prospective advertisers who read these kind of threads must think.
I think this one has been conducted quiet civily dont you?
Human nature will always differ on such things , just the nature of the beast ,if she had been dragged down a lane i dont think anyone would have questioned what went on ,,
Nowt as strange as folk ... , if the friends & family of the "victim" were the friends & family of the "charged" im sure they would have no doubt in their belief either, although it would be the exact opposite of what it is now.. &vice versa
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
It's fine to have discussions about such matters as long as the discussion remains civil
( which it has)
It's also important to know when a subject has been discussed enough, and when folks start repeating the content of some of their previous posts, this is a signal .
( which it has)
It's also important to know when a subject has been discussed enough, and when folks start repeating the content of some of their previous posts, this is a signal .
D
Deleted member 15344
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Which facts have i excluded - is there something missing from the website that proves beyond all reasonable doubt that its an open and shut case - is there something missing from all the media reports and the police reports etc
I have suggested that it appears there is doubt in the case - which considering also the time it took the jury to deliver the verdict is possible they thought as such
And i have said that some people on the jury service that my brother sat on had already decided the person was guilty ( in the case they were dealing with )
Is it not possible that the young lady gave consent and then changed her mind the next day - as has proven to have happened in other cases ?
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FairwayDodger
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No, it absolutely is not. I really hope that was just careless use of the word "mitigating".
No matter how drunk someone is you don't have any right to cheat, rob, assault, murder or even rape them.
williamalex1
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He has served his time and should be allowed to play football , not as if he's going to rape someone while playing or is he.
20 years ago Duncan Ferguson was jailed for an assault that took place on the playing field, and he was allowed to carry on playing after his released.
20 years ago Duncan Ferguson was jailed for an assault that took place on the playing field, and he was allowed to carry on playing after his released.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Hey don't worry FD, I am sure there would be just as much willingness on this forum to challenge a legal decision if the positions were reversed and a man had been found not guilty despite the fact the woman still said she was raped.
Isn't that exactly what has happened in this case then? My original point earlier in the thread, before you jumped all over me with your comments about having all the facts, was that the other guy had been found not guilty. I considered it strange that only one of them had been found guilty and not both.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
The fact about the low rate conviction rate, that I mentioned in the next sentence? Come on, do at least try and follow what people are saying.
No, none of your speculation is possible because all these arguments were tested in court and he was found guilty.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
I would appreciate you should read all my post again and read lines 4/5&6 , then read all the paragraph you so specificaly paraphrased from
i did not say it was mitigating circumstance in what happened, it never can be ,
i said in the case , if you cant remember something how on earth can you give factual evidence..(perhaps lost in translation or Court Case not clearly enough stated by me )
I am currently awaiting to give witness evidence in an assault case that i didnt even witness ive no idea what happened , should my evidence be taken ?
(For the record ... there was an incident in the pub with 2 regulars , both were put out seperately , a row ensued further up the town 1 hour later wher one got assaulted, i didnt see it and dont know what happened so how can my evidence stand up ?)
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Sorry but each case should be treated on its own merit
Sorry but of course the speculation is possible - it's happened before has it not ?
The young lady said she couldn't remember - not that she said no but she couldn't remember so the possibilities of what could have happened are valid
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Did anybody read post number 130?
Just wondering
Just wondering
D
Deleted member 16999
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Don't see the relevance with the offence Ferguson committed, who in fact apologised and accepted redponsibility, and Rape. If a footballer commits offences against a child should they be allowed to play again?
Putting all offences in one category is very dangerous
FairwayDodger
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I read and fully understood your post, which is why I assumed you didn't really mean "mitigating circumstance" even though that was the phrase you used. I hoped you'd clarify what you actually meant.
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