Charisma bypass?

[Doon frae Troon]

Her body language shows that she is very uncomfortable implementing far right policies.
Basically lying through her teeth to enact her ego.

Cameron at least did the decent thing [for once in his life] and resigned.

The only Brexit leader who showed any conviction and spoke honestly was Giselle Stewart

 

[SocketRocket]

Her body language shows that she is very uncomfortable implementing far right policies.
Basically lying through her teeth to enact her ego.

Cameron at least did the decent thing [for once in his life] and resigned.

The only Brexit leader who showed any conviction and spoke honestly was Giselle Stewart

Think your mixing her up with Jimmy for that.

 

[Hobbit]

Her body language shows that she is very uncomfortable implementing far right policies.
Basically lying through her teeth to enact her ego.

Cameron at least did the decent thing [for once in his life] and resigned.

The only Brexit leader who showed any conviction and spoke honestly was Giselle Stewart

So her body language tells you all that? Can you send me the lottery numbers too.

Cameron resigning was the cowards way out, especially as he said he'd be in the chair to deliver whatever the result was

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Theresa Maybe...her silence might originally have been interpreted as keeping her own council and been contemplative; though more and more I fear her silence and empty banalities suggest indecisiveness over what to do in the face of a nightmare in which she finds herself caught in a cleft stick. She knows what is most likely to be the least damaging for the country but knows also that that is most likely to be unacceptable to the 'no-compromise', 'no-surrender' brigade.

She has a frightful conundrum to deal with and I wish she'd speak up and be honest about it, rather than maintaining what I fear is just a pretense that all is going to plan and will be just fine. So May tells us that we will hear more about the UKs objectives in the coming weeks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ie-ridge-article-50-plan-latest-a7515656.html

Really...well I know that when I hear this sort of statement I generally suspect that there is currently very little detail - if any - to tell. I hope that I am wrong.

 

[ColchesterFC]

So for weeks you've been banging on about hearing the government's plan for Brexit and now that Theresa May has said she will give some details you are criticising her because you don't think that there will be very many details in it. You haven't even heard what she's going to say yet. How about having a bit of patience and waiting until she's made her speech before criticising it. But I guess that approach wouldn't fit with your anti-Brexit anti-Tory agenda would it?

 

[Hobbit]

So for weeks you've been banging on about hearing the government's plan for Brexit and now that Theresa May has said she will give some details you are criticising her because you don't think that there will be very many details in it. You haven't even heard what she's going to say yet. How about having a bit of patience and waiting until she's made her speech before criticising it. But I guess that approach wouldn't fit with your anti-Brexit anti-Tory agenda would it?

And he's already made up our minds for us as to what is least damaging. ~pointless May announcing anything. The judge, jury and executioner has already sat....

 

[SocketRocket]

Theresa Maybe...her silence might originally have been interpreted as keeping her own council and been contemplative; though more and more I fear her silence and empty banalities suggest indecisiveness over what to do in the face of a nightmare in which she finds herself caught in a cleft stick. She knows what is most likely to be the least damaging for the country but knows also that that is most likely to be unacceptable to the 'no-compromise', 'no-surrender' brigade.

She has a frightful conundrum to deal with and I wish she'd speak up and be honest about it, rather than maintaining what I fear is just a pretense that all is going to plan and will be just fine. So May tells us that we will hear more about the UKs objectives in the coming weeks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ie-ridge-article-50-plan-latest-a7515656.html

Really...well I know that when I hear this sort of statement I generally suspect that there is currently very little detail - if any - to tell. I hope that I am wrong.

So do you want her to lay all her Brexit cards on the table face up or not. I have asked you this before and you have not given a clear reply. I ask you again, do you expect her to lay all her Brexit plan on the table for the EU negotiators to see prior to talks with them.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So do you want her to lay all her Brexit cards on the table face up or not. I have asked you this before and you have not given a clear reply. I ask you again, do you expect her to lay all her Brexit plan on the table for the EU negotiators to see prior to talks with them.

I somehow think the cards she lays will all be low with no trumps.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So do you want her to lay all her Brexit cards on the table face up or not. I have asked you this before and you have not given a clear reply. I ask you again, do you expect her to lay all her Brexit plan on the table for the EU negotiators to see prior to talks with them.

No I do not (Is that clear enough). But we require, and MPs must have, some visibility of her objectives prior to triggering of Art50 - when is that going to happen? There are not many days to go and it is likely that the Supreme Court ruling will not come out until the end of this month. That means May will have maybe 4 weeks to put something together to put before parliament.

When I have asked for a 'plan' in the past I have meant a plan to get to triggering of Art50. That is not laying our cards on the table - it is how we get to the point of having a game plan/strategy and being able to play our first hand - and knowing what that will be. I know that it is not sensible for May to tell a negotiating opponent that 'this is what I'll be happy with - and this is what I'll concede'. At the moment we having zilch, nada, nothing - other than the frankly now rather vacuous 'Brexit means Brexit'. And something to do with Red, White and Blue that even a staunch 'Bluenose' might be embarrassed to spout.

But this is Art50 stuff. Charisma Bypass? Dunno - but I'm not sure that maintaining a poker face is doing her any good.

 

[SocketRocket]

No I do not (Is that clear enough). But we require, and MPs must have, some visibility of her objectives prior to triggering of Art50 - when is that going to happen? There are not many days to go and it is likely that the Supreme Court ruling will not come out until the end of this month. That means May will have maybe 4 weeks to put something together to put before parliament.

When I have asked for a 'plan' in the past I have meant a plan to get to triggering of Art50. That is not laying our cards on the table - it is how we get to the point of having a game plan/strategy and being able to play our first hand - and knowing what that will be. I know that it is not sensible for May to tell a negotiating opponent that 'this is what I'll be happy with - and this is what I'll concede'. At the moment we having zilch, nada, nothing - other than the frankly now rather vacuous 'Brexit means Brexit'. And something to do with Red, White and Blue that even a staunch 'Bluenose' might be embarrassed to spout.

You're still not making any sense. If you don't want to know the red lines and what we will and will not accept then I just dont understand what. If she said ; We want control over our borders, to be independent of the ECJ, to be able to create our own trade agreements, and have a free trade agreement without paying an EU membership fee. Would that satisfy your wants, somehow I doubt it so explain in clear terms what you want to hear.

 

[SocketRocket]

I somehow think the cards she lays will all be low with no trumps.

And you know this because?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You're still not making any sense. If you don't want to know the red lines and what we will and will not accept then I just dont understand what. If she said ; We want control over our borders, to be independent of the ECJ, to be able to create our own trade agreements, and have a free trade agreement without paying an EU membership fee. Would that satisfy your wants, somehow I doubt it so explain in clear terms what you want to hear.

It is really quite simple what I've asked for all along. Let's call it a timetable or a schedule to Art50. Does that help? Clearly my calling it a 'plan' is confusing.

The best information that we have at the moment is that UK EURep does not have sufficient information/detail on the UKs Brexit objectives for them to be able to formulate a negotiation strategy. That may or may not be 100% true, but May's silence and demeanor does nothing to help, and does nothing to indicate otherwise. She has however told us that she will provide some detail in the coming weeks. And that is good. As the Supreme Court ruling is fast approaching and parliament might well require that detail and more for debate prior to Art50 triggering.

I'm a project manager. If I said to my bosses on Day 1 of a nine month project that we'd be going live on 31st March and I still today did not have Project Plan that I could show them, I would be off the project pronto - long ago.

I would also have had to provide a Project Initiation Document in which I define requirements, objectives, milestones, acceptance criteria, risks, issues, financials etc This would be for internal use only - and not for sharing with the customer, where is May's and David Davis' Plan and PID? When are we to expect them? We (the public) don't need to see the PID - but the plan would be useful and what I have asked for? These are not even for the negotiations - these are simply for getting to triggering of Art50.

As a result I have little confidence that May will be able to trigger Art50 on March 31st with a decent negotiation strategy and objectives in place - and with a detailed understanding and assessment of all associated risks. And that for me is of concern.

 

[Hobbit]

It is really quite simple what I've asked for all along. Let's call it a timetable or a schedule to Art50. Does that help? Clearly my calling it a 'plan' is confusing.

The best information that we have at the moment is that UK EURep does not have sufficient information/detail on the UKs Brexit objectives for them to be able to formulate a negotiation strategy. That may or may not be 100% true, but May's silence and demeanor does nothing to help, and does nothing to indicate otherwise. She has however told us that she will provide some detail in the coming weeks. And that is good. As the Supreme Court ruling is fast approaching and parliament might well require that detail and more for debate prior to Art50 triggering.

I'm a project manager. If I said to my bosses on Day 1 of a nine month project that we'd be going live on 31st March and I still today did not have Project Plan that I could show them, I would be off the project pronto - long ago.

I would also have had to provide a Project Initiation Document in which I define requirements, objectives, milestones, acceptance criteria, risks, issues, financials etc This would be for internal use only - and not for sharing with the customer, where is May's and David Davis' Plan and PID? When are we to expect them? We (the public) don't need to see the PID - but the plan would be useful and what I have asked for? These are not even for the negotiations - these are simply for getting to triggering of Art50.

As a result I have little confidence that May will be able to trigger Art50 on March 31st with a decent negotiation strategy and objectives in place - and with a detailed understanding and assessment of all associated risks. And that for me is of concern.

The timetable is the 31st of March. That's an easy one to answer.

The detail for "your boss." She is the boss. That's an one to easy answer.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

It is really quite simple what I've asked for all along. Let's call it a timetable or a schedule to Art50. Does that help? Clearly my calling it a 'plan' is confusing.

The best information that we have at the moment is that UK EURep does not have sufficient information/detail on the UKs Brexit objectives for them to be able to formulate a negotiation strategy. That may or may not be 100% true, but May's silence and demeanor does nothing to help, and does nothing to indicate otherwise. She has however told us that she will provide some detail in the coming weeks. And that is good. As the Supreme Court ruling is fast approaching and parliament might well require that detail and more for debate prior to Art50 triggering.

I'm a project manager. If I said to my bosses on Day 1 of a nine month project that we'd be going live on 31st March and I still today did not have Project Plan that I could show them, I would be off the project pronto - long ago.

I would also have had to provide a Project Initiation Document in which I define requirements, objectives, milestones, acceptance criteria, risks, issues, financials etc This would be for internal use only - and not for sharing with the customer, where is May's and David Davis' Plan and PID? When are we to expect them? We (the public) don't need to see the PID - but the plan would be useful and what I have asked for? These are not even for the negotiations - these are simply for getting to triggering of Art50.

As a result I have little confidence that May will be able to trigger Art50 on March 31st with a decent negotiation strategy and objectives in place - and with a detailed understanding and assessment of all associated risks. And that for me is of concern.

Even as a staunch remainer who thinks this is a big mistake, I have absolutely no idea why you think that you are in someway entitled to this. What joe bloggs on the street thinks is no longer applicable. I'm 100% sure these things will exist within Whitehall already, but there is nothing to be gained from showing them to the public. Nothing at all.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Even as a staunch remainer who thinks this is a big mistake, I have absolutely no idea why you think that you are in someway entitled to this. What joe bloggs on the street thinks is no longer applicable. I'm 100% sure these things will exist within Whitehall already, but there is nothing to be gained from showing them to the public. Nothing at all.

I would only look for a timetable of milestones towards the triggering of Art50 to give business some confidence that the DEXEU are making progress towards getting things in place for a negotiated exit. Listening to the CEO of Rolls Royce interviewed on Ch4 news - he's not overly chuffed that he doesn't know what the heck is going on - though he is very clear that he does not want to have to accommodate tariffs on his exports as most RRs are exported.

 

[SocketRocket]

It is really quite simple what I've asked for all along. Let's call it a timetable or a schedule to Art50. Does that help? Clearly my calling it a 'plan' is confusing.

The best information that we have at the moment is that UK EURep does not have sufficient information/detail on the UKs Brexit objectives for them to be able to formulate a negotiation strategy. That may or may not be 100% true, but May's silence and demeanor does nothing to help, and does nothing to indicate otherwise. She has however told us that she will provide some detail in the coming weeks. And that is good. As the Supreme Court ruling is fast approaching and parliament might well require that detail and more for debate prior to Art50 triggering.

I'm a project manager. If I said to my bosses on Day 1 of a nine month project that we'd be going live on 31st March and I still today did not have Project Plan that I could show them, I would be off the project pronto - long ago.

I would also have had to provide a Project Initiation Document in which I define requirements, objectives, milestones, acceptance criteria, risks, issues, financials etc This would be for internal use only - and not for sharing with the customer, where is May's and David Davis' Plan and PID? When are we to expect them? We (the public) don't need to see the PID - but the plan would be useful and what I have asked for? These are not even for the negotiations - these are simply for getting to triggering of Art50.

As a result I have little confidence that May will be able to trigger Art50 on March 31st with a decent negotiation strategy and objectives in place - and with a detailed understanding and assessment of all associated risks. And that for me is of concern.

When you have drawn up your project plan would you then broadcast it on the internet so your competitors can read it and use it against you. Of course not so why do you think the Government and their negotiating team should do it. There is also a big difference between a project plan whereby you are detailing the steps necessary in manufacturing a product that your company wish to sell and negotiating a trade/sales agreement with another organisation, the project plans only take place to arrange the nuts and bolts of the detail after the cooperation agreement has been reached.

You also take the view that because the Government haven't made their plan clear to you that they don't have one. Surely if you detach yourself from your prejudices and take a helicopter view of the situation you will see that your view is unrealistic and flawed. Planning normally follows a pattern of Objectives, Activities and Resources, How can any of those things happen until you have actually worked out by negotiation what the product will look like.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry for taking away from the referendum and back to the OP

I'm struggling to understand what it is she has done wrong ?

Seems well spoken , no outbursts , no scandals and seems calm about the situation at the moment. Have no issues with her continuing with her calm approach and I expect she will do what she feels best for the country along with her cabinet and party.

 

[SocketRocket]

I would only look for a timetable of milestones towards the triggering of Art50 to give business some confidence that the DEXEU are making progress towards getting things in place for a negotiated exit. Listening to the CEO of Rolls Royce interviewed on Ch4 news - he's not overly chuffed that he doesn't know what the heck is going on - though he is very clear that he does not want to have to accommodate tariffs on his exports as most RRs are exported.

Well he will have to wait and see just like the rest of us, how can he be told what that will be at this stage. By the way he already sells his aero engines to many countries around the world where we dont have a free trade agreement but manages to do good business with them.

 

[SocketRocket]

Sorry for taking away from the referendum and back to the OP

I'm struggling to understand what it is she has done wrong ?

Seems well spoken , no outbursts , no scandals and seems calm about the situation at the moment. Have no issues with her continuing with her calm approach and I expect she will do what she feels best for the country along with her cabinet and party.

Good post, I agree.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When you have drawn up your project plan would you then broadcast it on the internet so your competitors can read it and use it against you. Of course not so why do you think the Government and their negotiating team should do it. There is also a big difference between a project plan whereby you are detailing the steps necessary in manufacturing a product that your company wish to sell and negotiating a trade/sales agreement with another organisation, the project plans only take place to arrange the nuts and bolts of the detail after the cooperation agreement has been reached.

You also take the view that because the Government haven't made their plan clear to you that they don't have one. Surely if you detach yourself from your prejudices and take a helicopter view of the situation you will see that your view is unrealistic and flawed. Planning normally follows a pattern of Objectives, Activities and Resources, How can any of those things happen until you have actually worked out by negotiation what the product will look like.

In what way could the EUs negotiators use a knowledge of our timeline to triggering Art50 against the UK in any damaging way? So for instance they might see slippage in concluding agreement of objectives - but they would not know which objective(s) were proving difficult. When might you expect our MPs to have visibility of our objectives then - because they are most probably going to have to have that. I'll guess 6th March.

And you keep seeming to miss that I am not talking about the 2yrs following Art50 triggering - I have been asking about the 9months leading to Art50 triggering. Plenty of times I have had to draft a plan for creating the plan.