Change to whs ?

[AliMc]

Don't know if this has been discussed before but a strong rumour coming out (from a member of a St.Andrews club who is good friends with an 'ITK' R&A member) is a change is being considered in that of the 8 best counting rounds from 20 a maximum if 2 can be from General Play rounds. For me personally who traditionally scores lower in 'bounce' gp games than in medals it would increase my current hi by 1.0 from 4.8 to 5.8, if gp scores were to be removed completely my hi would increase to 7.9
Talk is that it's being considered due to the increasing number of + and scratch h'caps, makes sense in our club anyway where we now have a lot more folk with these h'caps than before, many of them would never have got that low pre whs

 

[Deleted member 15717]

would be a bullshit change if they did....the handicap would no longer be an accurate representation of a player's form etc

I just can't see them making that change, but the authorities in golf never cease to surprise

 

[Swango1980]

Don't know if this has been discussed before but a strong rumour coming out (from a member of a St.Andrews club who is good friends with an 'ITK' R&A member) is a change is being considered in that of the 8 best counting rounds from 20 a maximum if 2 can be from General Play rounds. For me personally who traditionally scores lower in 'bounce' gp games than in medals it would increase my current hi by 1.0 from 4.8 to 5.8, if gp scores were to be removed completely my hi would increase to 7.9
Talk is that it's being considered due to the increasing number of + and scratch h'caps, makes sense in our club anyway where we now have a lot more folk with these h'caps than before, many of them would never have got that low pre whs

I'd be shocked if that were the case, and Im virtually certain (over 95% ) it is fake news. Firstly, one of the big selling points was that it was felt allowing players to submit scores regularly would provide more enthusiasm for the sport, and provide more accurate handicaps. Secondly, what if you have signed up to igolf (Do Scotland have an equivalent?)? Most of their rounds, if not all, would be general play rounds, given that they are not a member of a club with organised competitions. Some may enter Opens, but even most or all of them would not be in a format to allow scores to be submitted.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm thinking some of the logic behind any such change would be based upon a belief that a player is more likely to 'misbehave' in his play and interpretation of rules, and hence his scoring, when playing with his mates and putting in a gp card, than when playing in a formal competition. Unfortunate...as one of the main advantages for me of WHS is that it gets a player to a HI that reflects his 'current' form, and for me it is that that matters in a competitive context.

 

[evemccc]

would be a bullshit change if they did....the handicap would no longer be an accurate representation of a player's form etc

I just can't see them making that change, but the authorities in golf never cease to surprise

Exactly - which presumably was a big reason for going to WHS in the first place

I wouldn’t be necessarily against it…but 6/8 comp rounds is perhaps over/egging it for those whose life-schedules don’t always allow play when the club Medals are on..why not 4/8?

IMO a golf handicap is like a runner’s PB. No one really cares except yourself. You are really playing against yourself in the (futile) lifetime quest to get to scratch / improve..

Maybe it’s only a problem of banditry…and in Open Comps where it’s a problem…so just reduce prize pots..?

 

[Jensen]

WHS is open to abuse and has been proved by dodgy general play submitted.
Not my club, but I’ve heard of people increasing their handicap in time for Open competition’s.
It’s disgraceful and I no time for individuals like that

 

[Deleted member 15717]

WHS is open to abuse and has been proved by dodgy general play submitted.
Not my club, but I’ve heard of people increasing their handicap in time for Open competition’s.
It’s disgraceful and I no time for individuals like that

every system is open to abuse.

As for increasing their handicaps for opens....which ones? Normally I find opens close within a week or two of the event, and a tee sheet is released. If folks are then putting in a lot of cards in that 2 week period, then it is a lot of effort for an increase...and what may they gain? 1 extra shot? It's not as if they are going up by 5 shots

 

[Backache]

Could it be that this is largely going to be for Cat 1:golfers?
As a mid- high handicapper I don't do general play scores anyway. It doesn't really suit how I play golf far to much faff.

 

[Swango1980]

WHS is open to abuse and has been proved by dodgy general play submitted.
Not my club, but I’ve heard of people increasing their handicap in time for Open competition’s.
It’s disgraceful and I no time for individuals like that

Are you sure? Don't know how many members you have, but you'd if you didn't even have one player at the club who did a bit of unreasonable handicap manipulation from time to time. It might not have been picked up (yet), and/or could be a member who you are not even aware of as they never enter any club competitions (so not really known to the wider membership).

I would assume you will always get players like that everywhere. Some will be much more devious, others will ignorantly not see themselves as doing anything wrong. One guy we sometimes play with didn't want to submit a social score a few months ago, as he didn't want a cut before the competition next week. Low and behold, he won that competition (over 100 in the field), and won the following week for good measure. Sure, it is his right to not submit a score in general play. However, I am almost certain that if he had been playing badly, or the 20th score he loses was a good one in his top 8, he WOULD submit a general play round. Therefore, chances are he'd get a handicap increase before the next competition. This can be handicap manipulation by stealth, in that the player is still genuinely trying to score well in general play (i.e. not intentionally hitting bad shots / missing putts), but using their right to decide when to pre-register and submit a general play round based on what score they will be losing and what may replace it, and what impact that may have on handicap.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Funnily enough, I heard several WHS rumours over the weekend:
- Looking to change from taking the best 8 from your last 20, to using the last 30 rounds. It was not made clear to me whether it would take your best 12 from your last 30, or continue to take best 8 from 30
- PCC calculation has definitely changed?
- Limiting number of supplementary scores/general play scores (this in in line with your post!)

Would love to know where the rumours start and why it isn’t being communicated effectively

 

[Bdill93]

If they remove general play scores then ill go from 15 to about 20 real fast...

Do it! I wouldnt mind taking some winnings home!

 

[Swango1980]

Can anyone actually point to the source of these rumours? Was it hearsay amongst members, or something that was read online?

 

[AliMc]

Can anyone actually point to the source of these rumours? Was it hearsay amongst members, or something that was read online?

A member of a club in St. Andrews, not the R&A, who plays with a member of the R&A

 

[wjemather]

Don't know if this has been discussed before but a strong rumour coming out (from a member of a St.Andrews club who is good friends with an 'ITK' R&A member) is a change is being considered in that of the 8 best counting rounds from 20 a maximum if 2 can be from General Play rounds. For me personally who traditionally scores lower in 'bounce' gp games than in medals it would increase my current hi by 1.0 from 4.8 to 5.8, if gp scores were to be removed completely my hi would increase to 7.9
Talk is that it's being considered due to the increasing number of + and scratch h'caps, makes sense in our club anyway where we now have a lot more folk with these h'caps than before, many of them would never have got that low pre whs

Highly unlikely. Forcing players to compete in competitions would be contrary to several of the stated aims/goals of WHS.

Changes to the Course Rating system would be the most effective way of limiting the % of scratch (or better) golfers out there. Manipulating the handicap system by putting limits on comps/gp rounds to achieve that aim would be counter-productive and more importantly, wouldn't actually achieve that goal.

 

[Swango1980]

Funnily enough, I heard several WHS rumours over the weekend:
- Looking to change from taking the best 8 from your last 20, to using the last 30 rounds. It was not made clear to me whether it would take your best 12 from your last 30, or continue to take best 8 from 30
- PCC calculation has definitely changed?
- Limiting number of supplementary scores/general play scores (this in in line with your post!)

Would love to know where the rumours start and why it isn’t being communicated effectively

The answer to your last bit is probably because the rumours are untrue.

Or, I am sure WHS is always being monitored, with the national authorities dealing with all sorts of enquiries from day to day, and investigating any areas that may improve the system. This is just ongoing, so they are unlikely to communicate to the public every single issue that is being discussed behind the scenes, most of which will never actually change in the end. I can only imagine them communicating these issues more widely when they have a genuine reason to believe that a change will occur, and thus put out early feeders so that the wider golfing public can start to understand why a future change is felt necessary.

I've heard that PCC is seriously being monitored, and could well be changed, that was certainly mentioned by England Golf. I've not heard about the first rumour at all, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt at the moment. It would suggest using the last 20 scores is not quite good enough, which would be a serious revelation at this early stage of the system, given the amount of scores supposedly reviewed to get the system we have now. And, I also don't believe the 3rd rumour at all, and it seems a better solution is to leave it up to Competition Secretaries to set the criteria of what is permitted in their competitions.

 

[Beezerk]

Funnily enough, I heard several WHS rumours over the weekend:

Same here, a lad I play with said he’d heard there were going to be changes next year but he didn’t know what exactly.
One hell of a rumour mill going around at the minute.

 

[Imurg]

Then the authorities need to confirm or deny things asap or, by the winter, it'll be your best ever score - the value of the £.....

 

[D-S]

This would have to be a local change not a global WHS one, as the dominant force, the US of A, have a large proportion of its handicap index owners not playing in competitions at all. Those that do tend to be scrambles or better ball. So this could not apply there, might be worth suggesting it on Golf WRX though then retiring to a safe place.

 

[rulefan]

Same here, a lad I play with said he’d heard there were going to be changes next year but he didn’t know what exactly.
One hell of a rumour mill going around at the minute.

Someone told me they had heard that there were going to be some constitutional changes in Wales or somewhere next year but he didn't know where or exactly what.

 

[Fabia999]

I presume if this ever did come into play you could submit, for example, 14 general play cards and 6 comps and that would be fine?