Castle Stuart no.25????? GM explain!

[stevek1969]

The guys who do the listing are all apparantly 'golfers' Steve but on inspecting the panel I note that 1 of the 3 Senior Panel members is a Rob Smith aged 53 Handicap 14......

Surely not THE Rob Smith??!!

If so all credence of the list has to be questioned....a knob as a Senior Panelist?!?!

Not me, so bollocks

He certainly plays enough courses Alan to be on the panel but there mainly goat tracks so it cant be him surely ,or is it as he say's is handicap is 12 or is it 14, another Homer gait on the way me thinks

 

[Dodger]

Thought that.....

a)53 was ten too young.

b)Surely they wouldn't need to stoop so low.

And ...

c) If so,where the feck was Lydd?

 

[Dodger]

Just to utterly confuse you all here is the recently released Golf Digest Ireland Top 20 list.

A few that are above others or are the other way around in the GM List and some that are nowhere to be seen.

IRELAND'S TOP 20 - ACCORDING TO GOLF DIGEST IRELAND

1 Royal County Down (+1 from last year).
2 Portmarnock (-1).
3 Royal Portrush (+1).
4 The European Club (-1).
5 Ballybunion Old (no change).
6 Waterville (no change).
7 Lahinch (+1).
8 Adare (-1).
9 Co Louth: Baltray (no change).
10 Tralee (+1).
11 Co Sligo (+5).
12 The Island (+6).
13 Mount Juliet (-1).
14 Killeen Castle (new course).
15 K Club: Palmer course (-5).
16 Ballyliffin: Glashedy Links (-1).
17 Enniscrone (+3).
18 Royal Dublin (-5).
19 Donegal: Murvagh Links (+3).
20 Portstewart: Strand (+4)

 

[MikeH]

sorry for slow repsonses to various questions

J_F
It would be interesting to know your personal top 5 or top 10, Mike, to see how it compares to the published list.

My personal top 10 favourite courses (NB of the Top 20 I havent played Waterville and Lahinch)
(please note these are my favourites and while I'm using the GM criteria as a base for my personal choices I'd probably put equal stock in the 'visal experience' and 'ambience' critera as 'design/test' and 'conditioning' whereas our offical criteria gives double weighting to 'design/test' and 'conditioning as they are viewed as the most important factors)
1 Muirfield
2 Dornoch
3 St Andrews
4 County Down
5 St Georges
6 Sunningdale New
7 Carnoustie
8 Kingsbarns
9 Turnberry
10 European Club

The Craw
You will regret getting involved in this discussion! Can I ask who went to Kilmarnock Barassie and rated that into your "2nd string top 100???
I havent got all the assessments to hand to check notes but off the top of my head they thought it was a tough course, well conditioned and good value when compared to nearby courses like Gailes, Troon, Prestwick, Dundonald etc.

With the Next 100 I will be very honest and say there will almost certainly be some courses we have missed - not on purpose but becase once you get past about 120 then another 200 courses would have a good case for a spot in the 121-200 bracket. That's why we put in a note for readers to let us know if we have, in their opnion, made any glaring ommissions

I am also genuinely surprised to see that Southerness has not made the top 100.

Again one that came close but both the asssessors who visted noted it as borderline top 100 in the benchmarking - in that case it then comes down to a call from me Jezz and Rob. I haven't played it but the other two have and they both said No. As I recall a slow start, a relative lack of variety of holes, all the best holes being bunched around the turn and accesibility counted against it

Screwback
So its not exactly the top 100 courses!! Its the top 100 best club, best driveway, best scenery etc. For me the top 100 course should be just that the courses if the course is amazing everything else should be secondry.

Certainly an interesting point and, although as mentioned further up the post, test and design/conditioning count double in the marking (ie they are worth a maximum of 20 marks rather than the 10 that visual appeal and ambience which covers all the off course stuff are only worth 10) we our rankings are about the whole expeience and we think that's about much more than just the 18 holes.

If you took our views and ambience completely out of the equation I reckon the Top 10 would look something like this...
1 Muirfield
2 Birkdale
3 Carnoustie
4 St Georges
5 Royal Lytham
6 Sunningdale New
7 Counry Down
8 Turnberry
9 Royal Liverpool
10 Dornoch

...No Old Course

What do others reckon?

 

[John_Findlay]

Interesting. Especially the criteria for selection.

When I'm out on the course I personally put an awful lot of stock in the visual experience or the ambience. A lot more than conditioning or accessability, say.

This is probably why my personal favourites tend to be links courses, with a preference for those which have spectacular views such as Castle Stuart or Turnberry or Dornoch or County Down. They are just unique and they "feel special".

Is this maybe why the links courses fare so well in the polls?

Carnoustie, on the other hand, doesn't have any links views to speak of but it's just of such an exceptional design and test and it's always in such amazing condition that it makes my top 5 in spite of the lack of visual appeal away from the course.

 

[Dodger]

Mike,I would say that design wise I would put the Old in front of Dornoch and up there in a strong top ten slot,I really enjoyed Dornoch but think most of that enjoyment was due to the fact of its timeless setting that makes it such a lovely place to play golf but for me the course is pretty straight forward bar it's trademark domed greens.The Old for me is a special course not just because of the ambience of the place but design wise I find it a particularly intriguing and you can see how it has influenced many a course design over the years particularly with visual deception.

 

[MikeH]

Dodger
You're undoubtedly right that the Old Course has influenced a lot of designers, courses and holes but playing Devil's advocate I would ask whether that's becuase the Old Course's layout is great or because of the unique place the Old Course has within the game of golf so it carries an incredible influence?

I think there are a number of outstanding holes on the Old Course - my favourites are 7, 11, 14 and 17 but it also has a number of weak holes 3, 9 and 10. I'd also say that were the 18th not situated where it is then most of us would think it an average hole and far too easy a home hole. IMHO Dornoch is a much more complete test of golf

As I say that's just my opinion but whatever anyone thinks what I dont feel anyone can disagree with is that these two courses allow golfers to play a round in very special (and differet) settings but both have a spititual feel to them. I certainly felt very moved the when I played them and they stir quite deep emotions just thinking about them.

God, what do I sound like? A complete luvvie. And I haven't even had a drink, yet.

 

[SS2]

And I haven't even had a drink, yet.

Clearly, Mr Editor, that is where you are going wrong !

 

[stevek1969]

Just to utterly confuse you all here is the recently released Golf Digest Ireland Top 20 list.

A few that are above others or are the other way around in the GM List and some that are nowhere to be seen.

IRELAND'S TOP 20 - ACCORDING TO GOLF DIGEST IRELAND

1 Royal County Down (+1 from last year).
2 Portmarnock (-1).
3 Royal Portrush (+1).
4 The European Club (-1).
5 Ballybunion Old (no change).
6 Waterville (no change).
7 Lahinch (+1).
8 Adare (-1).
9 Co Louth: Baltray (no change).
10 Tralee (+1).
11 Co Sligo (+5).
12 The Island (+6).
13 Mount Juliet (-1).
14 Killeen Castle (new course).
15 K Club: Palmer course (-5).
16 Ballyliffin: Glashedy Links (-1).
17 Enniscrone (+3).
18 Royal Dublin (-5).
19 Donegal: Murvagh Links (+3).
20 Portstewart: Strand (+4)

I've played both Ballyliffin courses and think they're superb but i think The Old Links is a lot tougher than the Glashedy,Killeen Castle at 14 have only seen it on the Tv and it didn't look that good,i'm suprised The Old Head of Kinsale isn't there.