Can sand be a loose impediment in The General Area?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Actually if Steven doesn't mind maybe there's even a forum friendly edited version that could be posted here suitable for viewing by a wider audience (cheeky asking I know but I'm interested too)

...or post against the previous (2018) thread..(I don't know how to copy and paste a link to a previous thread), but it was called...

Top 10 misunderstood rules!?

 

[Slab]

...or post against the previous (2018) thread..(I don't know how to copy and paste a link to a previous thread), but it was called...

Top 10 misunderstood rules!?

Might add a little confusion though given the 2019 Rules 'overhaul'

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Might add a little confusion though given the 2019 Rules 'overhaul'

I'm sure we've done similar quite recently but couldn't find it

 

[BiMGuy]

Aaaand another reason why I don’t play in May comps anymore.

It’s not really a fair comp when so many people don’t play to the rules.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Aaaand another reason why I don’t play in May comps anymore.

It’s not really a fair comp when so many people don’t play to the rules.

...and in some contexts sometimes not to their own advantage - though in others a rule break. So an example from earlier this week.

A playing companion's ball was close to, but not on, a defined track but his stance was fully on the track. Neither he, nor the other two lads with us, knew that he could take relief from the track based upon his stance if he wished - by doing so he could have got a better lie for his ball.

Of course the other side of this is that in another scenario had his ball been on the track they knew he could take a drop but did not know that the drop had to be such that he was not the taking an address while standing on the track...and that's the problem and where things go wrong. All three know the rule now...whether they will stick to it and enforce it with their usual playing companions (I don't normally play with them) is quite another matter.

Interestingly for our most important competitions my club has started doing a draw for playing groups - when we enter such a comp we choose one of three time zones, and groups are drawn at random from all those in a zone (I think concessions are done under special circumstances - but playing with mates from your normal playing group is not one of these)

 

[Steven Rules]

Actually if Steven doesn't mind maybe there's even a forum friendly edited version that could be posted here suitable for viewing by a wider audience (cheeky asking I know but I'm interested too)

Ok. I have just been back and checked the document. There were actually seven common breaches in there not six. I now recall I added another one during the drafting process. I'll edit it right down and start a new thread.

 

[williamalex1]

Just to clarify, if there's a pile of sand lying in the middle of the fairway [ accidentally left/dropped by green staff ]
Do you get relief from it?
I seem to remember something about being left by green staff to be picked up later.

 

[rulefan]

Just to clarify, if there's a pile of sand lying in the middle of the fairway [ accidentally left/dropped by green staff ]
Do you get relief from it?
I seem to remember something about being left by green staff to be picked up later.

How big is the pile?

 

[williamalex1]

How big is the pile?

How long is a piece of string

 

[rulefan]

The size of the pile might give a clue as to why it is there and that may answer your question.

 

[williamalex1]

The size of the pile might give a clue as to why it is there and that may answer your question.

Thankfully I'm not an expert on the size of piles, but imagine it's just a small pile , can I get relief

 

[salfordlad]

Aaaand another reason why I don’t play in May comps anymore.

It’s not really a fair comp when so many people don’t play to the rules.

It may seem a little perverse, but if everyone is keeping on misapplying the rules the way they always do, then their handicap is valid/fair for the net event - they have no advantage over others that apply the rules correctly all the time. Any advantage is limited to the gross event.

 

[Colin L]

Thankfully I'm not an expert on the size of piles, but imagine it's just a small pile , can I get relief

I expect what rulefan is getting at is whether the sand appears to have been dumped deliberately to be used for a job such as top dressing a putting green or is a small amount of sand that has, for example, been spilled from a trailer as it went by. You would getrelief from the former as it meets the Definition of ground under repair ("Grass cuttings, leaves and any other material piled for later removal").but not from the latter as it is specifically not ground under repair being "materials left on the course that are not intended to be removed."
[See the definition of ground under repair. https://www.randa.org/rog/definitions#definition-G ]

 

[RRidges]

It may seem a little perverse, but if everyone is keeping on misapplying the rules the way they always do, then their handicap is valid/fair for the net event - they have no advantage over others that apply the rules correctly all the time. Any advantage is limited to the gross event.

Perhaps, but that's not the case - at least imo.
And instances of such rules breaches would also have to be evenly spread across every round to be equitable. That also rarely, if ever, hppens!

 

[rulie]

Perhaps, but that's not the case - at least imo.
And instances of such rules breaches would also have to be evenly spread across every round to be equitable. That also rarely, if ever, hppens!

"Misapplying the Rules" usually includes not including penalty strokes in their gross scores, and a lower handicap does not entirely account for those penalty strokes. Handicap is based on the best 8 of the last 20 scores, and is not representative of all 20 scores.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just to clarify, if there's a pile of sand lying in the middle of the fairway [ accidentally left/dropped by green staff ]
Do you get relief from it?
I seem to remember something about being left by green staff to be picked up later.

No . It’s not picked up .
As I read it it’s a Sand Cat scarification on the greens.??? Is this correct.?
It’s like a shark fin under the ground level that cuts a furrow and fills it with sand.
After each run a certain amount off excess sand is still in the blade , these make small sand mounds on the fringes.
We always go around the fringes with a brush to stop this from happening.
First decent rain shower should remove most of it.!

I would think if your greens have been done like this a small amount of sand off the green is the least of your problems .

 

[clubchamp98]

Does seem an odd rule given the changes to the rules recently.
Moving things from bunkers etc.
Things that fall into bunkers off the course can be moved but sand on the course out of a bunker off the green can’t be moved.
What’s the logic behind this rule.?

Not op I know but just interested.

 

[DickInShorts]

The logic - I presume - is a bit like divot drops - when does loose sand become the ground (especially on links courses).

 

[RRidges]

"Misapplying the Rules" usually includes not including penalty strokes in their gross scores, and a lower handicap does not entirely account for those penalty strokes. Handicap is based on the best 8 of the last 20 scores, and is not representative of all 20 scores.

Maybe; maybe not! How do/would you, or anyone, know?
And note that I qualified it with 'to be equitable'!
FWIW. Apart from your last statement, both our posts are 99+% 'hypothetical'!
Oh, and my reply was specifically to the post I replied to - not a general comment. I don't actually believe that we all misapply the rules equally!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Thankfully I'm not an expert on the size of piles, but imagine it's just a small pile , can I get relief

Yes there are products at the chemist?