Can sand be a loose impediment in The General Area?

[3offTheTee]

“scarification will be carried out, using a GKB sand filler at a depth of 30mm with 25mm spacing which will inject 25-30 tonnes of kiln dried top dressing directly into the scarification lines”

Following the above which happened at our Club last week there is sand on the fringe of the green which is NOT from the bunker as there is no bunker on this green. Not sure whether top dressing is classed as sand but it looks like sand.

Can the sand be removed in these circumstances?

 

[Colin L]

No

 

[jim8flog]

However it sounds like the sand is being put into aeration lines. If your club has a LR in place you would get relief if your ball is in one of these lines but you would still not be allowed to move the sand prior to dropping (as per the LR).

 

[3offTheTee]

However it sounds like the sand is being put into aeration lines. If your club has a LR in place you would get relief if your ball is in one of these lines but you would still not be allowed to move the sand prior to dropping (as per the LR).

The sand has been added to the aeration holes Jim but this is specifically off the green.

 

[IanM]

I'm sure I'd be moving it, I'm sure everyone i play with would be moving it!

Anyone reference the Rule?

 

[Backsticks]

Strange question.
Would never occur to me not too. It is loose. Its impeding me. Then its a loose impediment. I move it.

 

[Colin L]

Sand isn't a loose impediment anywhere. See the Definition of loose impediment where it says

• Sand and Loose Soil are not loose impediments.

https://www.randa.org/rog/definitions#definition-L

 

[Backsticks]

Thanks. We learn something every day. Ive been brushing away sand for decades. I was just going on the basis that it was loose and impeding, i.e not fixed or growing. Knowing the rules really does hurt ones score ?

 

[Steven Rules]

Strange question.
Would never occur to me not too. It is loose. Its impeding me. Then its a loose impediment. I move it.

In my experience, this is an aspect of the Rules that is commonly not applied correctly.

Rule 8.1a
Actions That Are Not Allowed
Except in the limited ways allowed in Rules 8.1b, c and d, a player must not take any of these actions if they improve the conditions affecting the stroke:

(4) Remove or press down sand or loose soil.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 8.1a: General Penalty.

Rule 8.1b
Actions That Are Allowed
In preparing for or making a stroke, a player may take any of these actions and there is no penalty even if doing so improves the conditions affecting the stroke:

(10) On the putting green, remove sand and loose soil and repair damage (see Rule 13.1c).

 

[Colin L]

Thanks. We learn something every day. Ive been brushing away sand for decades. I was just going on the basis that it was loose and impeding, i.e not fixed or growing. Knowing the rules really does hurt ones score ?

Brush away as much you like on the putting green

 

[IanM]

So, on the green, it's ok, off the green leave it alone. (If local rule in place, adhere to whatever that says!l

Absolutely sure I've been doing this wrong for years!

 

[DickInShorts]

McIlroy got picked up on this by Luke Donald a few years ago after he brushed sand on the fringe of a green in the Middle East - I forget which course

 

[3offTheTee]

Brush away as much you like on the putting green

I was fully aware of the rule when I posted initially.

All I wanted to know was whether having had the work done on the green there could be an exception.

 

[Colin L]

I was fully aware of the rule when I posted initially.

Sure, but others evidently weren't.

 

[salfordlad]

I would be considering a local rule covering the sanded and scarified areas for a few weeks, defining the sanded and scarified areas in the general area as GUR. That would allow dropping away as an option, it would not enable moving the sand.

 

[Steven Rules]

So, on the green, it's ok, off the green leave it alone. (If local rule in place, adhere to whatever that says!l

Absolutely sure I've been doing this wrong for years!

You are not alone. A while back I wrote an article for our club newsletter about (my perceptions of) the six most common rules breaches at our club. This was one of them.

 

[rulefan]

You are not alone. A while back I wrote an article for our club newsletter about (my perceptions of) the six most common rules breaches at our club. This was one of them.

That would be interesting to see. I'm sure they are the same six everywhere.
Could you possibly PM them? Thanks

 

[Slab]

You are not alone. A while back I wrote an article for our club newsletter about (my perceptions of) the six most common rules breaches at our club. This was one of them.

That would be interesting to see. I'm sure they are the same six everywhere.
Could you possibly PM them? Thanks

Actually if Steven doesn't mind maybe there's even a forum friendly edited version that could be posted here suitable for viewing by a wider audience (cheeky asking I know but I'm interested too)

 

[salfordlad]

Actually if Steven doesn't mind maybe there's even a forum friendly edited version that could be posted here suitable for viewing by a wider audience (cheeky asking I know but I'm interested too)

This is a good idea if Steven is happy to share to the wider audience - it could inspire others to offer their favourite screw ups out there in regular club golf. No problem if it was one or a few at a time or all together.

 

[salfordlad]

McIlroy got picked up on this by Luke Donald a few years ago after he brushed sand on the fringe of a green in the Middle East - I forget which course

Donald is a tour standout (in a weak pool) in terms of rules awareness and compliance. McIlroy is a kind of learn by screwing up person, then become more careful. I recall him learning a 25+k lesson in a Middle East tourney that relief from a cart path must be total - his heel was just touching the path when he played after a relief drop.