Call me a cynic but.....2 clubs longer, really?

[chappell07]

Hi guys, just a quick topic for discussion....I know all manufacturers are looking for more length all of the time, and in particular in the woods but irons too?

Do people really need more length in their irons, or is this all just a marketing scam to get people to buy into products. I can understand things such as more forgiveness, easier to launch and potentially the more length 'pun' but come on, surely things need to settle a little and get back to making irons which appeal to the eye more so again, like Mizuno MP-H5 forged or the new Srixon 545-945 range (look amazing), even the Callaway Apex/Apex pro.

What's got me thinking about this recently is the the new campaign from the company i mentioned last, Callaway, (I know they're not alone), but it's the campaign that claims get 2 clubs longer! Having done 30 seconds of research....I noticed that the new Callaway Big Bertha 2014 Iron 6 iron for example is 26 Degrees of loft and 37.8" long. That's practically a 5 iron in todays players irons and if not a 4 iron compared to some years ago. My personal game set, Rocketbladez tour, and yes I know TM are just as bad for product releases and marketing claims as others, but the 6 iron is only 29.5 Degrees in loft and 37.25" long, so Inevitably the Callaway is going to be 10 yards + longer. Surely that's just physics and companies starting to crank the lofts of irons tricking people into thinking they're longer? Interestingly I read an article recently, relating to Tiger Woods, and interestingly he actually asks for all new products that Nike fit him for to be de-lofted or set at the original lofts he grew up playing as he is used to seeing certain flights and yardages with clubs. He even claimed to pick up Rory's PW and saying that it looked like his 9 iron!

I don't know if this is just me or others feel the same and get slightly frustrated by the never ending release of clubs, as soon as you have a new set they're dated with in the year and 2 clubs longer is a big claim, yes they may well be but the 6 iron is the equivalent to a 5 iron in a lot of sets. Surely that is a bit of a cheat?

Anyway, mini rant over, I know it is not only Callaway who have huge claims, other brands do too and I am guilty of playing mainly TM products who are just as bad. I will however, in the new year be looking for a new set of irons, away from bigger companies with huge claims and looking for an eye catching set that play just as well. Surely knowing yardages and and how far you hit irons is more important that going bigger and longer all of the time, never mind the iron you have should appeal to your eye making you want to play them!

This was never meant to be a rant, so apologies but it has kind of turned out that way. :rant: :lol:

 

[cookelad]

I've said it before and I'll say again and, no doubt, again and again, I don't care that someone else hits their 8 iron 10 yards further than I do, what I want is to hit my 8 iron nearer the pin!

It's all done for the willy wavers who have to ask what club you hit before proclaiming their masculinity for hitting a club less than you!

We'll soon be seeing standard sets being sold without a 4 iron, the price won't change but we'll be another club short on what we used to get, and having to buy a 45* wedge because the bag is light at the bottom end!

 

[Imurg]

Its mainly the Game Improvement sector that have lofts cranked as far as these and the new BB is no different.
The trouble is that the weighting in the head is designed to make it easier to get the ball in the air. And it is!
The downside to this is that, in order to keep balls from going into orbit, the have to strengthen the lofts by 2, 3 or more degrees.
This inevitably leads to more distance and, although we know different, distance sells.
If they didn't strengthen lofts the ball would be going so high that passing aircraft would be in danger.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

ok, you're a cynic...



I'll get my coat

 

[GeneralStore]

Alot of it is down to the lofts, but as Imurg is saying they are far easier to launch. Its all very well dropping the loft, but you still need to make the club more forgiving, otherwise everyone could just start hitting their 3 irons instead of their 5.

The issue with the additional wedge bugs me though, but then as long as they have an approach wedge/gap wedge as part of the set, what does it matter? Essentially you are buying a 5 to AW instead of 4 to PW.

 

[chappell07]

Yes i do agree, people don't need balls flying into orbit but would it not be more beneficial for people using game improvement irons to see there ball launching as too often they may be used to it having a lower flight resulting in a lack of trust in the club and 'flicking' or 'helping' the ball up. So do lofts need to be cranked?

I do agree with cookelad though, 3 to SW has gone to 4 iron to SW and now 4 iron to PW with the possibility of dropping a 4 iron soon im guessing too.

 

[duncan mackie]

Its mainly the Game Improvement sector that have lofts cranked as far as these and the new BB is no different.
The trouble is that the weighting in the head is designed to make it easier to get the ball in the air. And it is!
The downside to this is that, in order to keep balls from going into orbit, the have to strengthen the lofts by 2, 3 or more degrees.
This inevitably leads to more distance and, although we know different, distance sells.
If they didn't strengthen lofts the ball would be going so high that passing aircraft would be in danger.

so that's all the realities properly laid out in post #3...

the OP states " I can understand things such as more forgiveness, easier to launch and potentially the more length"

we all have a concept of how easy (say) a 7 iron is for us to hit properly so if someone gives me a club that feels 'that easy to hit and goes on a trajectory I associate with a 7 iron but with 25yds longer carry they have done their job!

nothing more required :thup:

 

[Stuey01]

Its mainly the Game Improvement sector that have lofts cranked as far as these and the new BB is no different.
The trouble is that the weighting in the head is designed to make it easier to get the ball in the air. And it is!
The downside to this is that, in order to keep balls from going into orbit, the have to strengthen the lofts by 2, 3 or more degrees.
This inevitably leads to more distance and, although we know different, distance sells.
If they didn't strengthen lofts the ball would be going so high that passing aircraft would be in danger.

So in order to stop my new 6 iron from going into orbit because of all the super dooper techs amaze balls it needs to have the loft (and apparently length...) of a 5 iron? So what happens to my 7 iron that now has the loft of my old 6 iron? Does that go into orbit? Or does that one not have all the super duper tech? Or is it all just a convenient line of bullshine?

(Not actually talking about my clubs, I don't think mo64s are super duper techy mega lofts etc)

 

[chappell07]

Exactly Stuey01, ots almost a case of swap number. Why not just make the current range more forgiving if thats whats required. I understand where Duncan is coming from but surely, a club that goes 25 yards longer amd trajectoy of a 7iron is just a 6 or 5 iron.

My personal opinion, and it is only an opinion, is the clubs will be so easy to hit soon and alsmost swing them selves that it'll take part of the challenge/enjoyment away. £600,£700 and maybe £800 on a new set would be well spent on a whole host of lessons and instruction from a world class pro at that cost.

 

[Foxholer]

When they are dropping the 3 (or even 4) iron and virtually insisting on a G/AW, then there's something a bit askew!

 

[Stuey01]

When they are dropping the 3 (or even 4) iron and virtually insisting on a G/AW, then there's something a bit askew!

Yes, the numbering.

 

[MadAdey]

They no choice but to crank the lofts down due to the way these modern irons are designed to launch the ball easier meaning they fly higher. When I got my JPX I compared them side by side with my MP33 on the launch monitor, this was after they had come back custom fitted so it was a perfect comparison.

MP33 6i 32* JPX Pro 6i 29*, both exactly the same length. The launch angle, peak height where all the same, so both clubs flew exactly the same apart from the JPX was about 6 yards longer. So even though the loft is basically 1 club stronger, there really wasn't a big difference in distance. That just backs up what Murg was saying about the lofts having to be lowered to counteract the higher launching characteristics of these modern day clubs.

 

[BTatHome]

If you hitting longer irons then you don't need so many hybrids

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Every manufacturer has cranked lofts over the years. Some are worse than others and to be honest, for me, it's about the quality o the strike and the dispersion. Having started hitting it better my distance has increased by default anyway and I've gone from an average 6 iron of 152 to 159. As long as I know how far I hit each club on average then I don't care whether my Ping goes further than my mates TM's, someone else's Callaways etc. It's about what I do with my clubs and how I hit it

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Number on the bottom of the club is irrelevant for me - how far I hit each club is all that im interested in

I know my 7 goes around 160 ish so work from there

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Number on the bottom of the club is irrelevant for me - how far I hit each club is all that im interested in

I know my 7 goes around 160 ish so work from there

Exactly. Mine would go less than that with my swing so irrespective of the variances in lofts it's about knowing how far you hit your own clubs

 

[chappell07]

I do agree, knowing yardages and what you carry each club is far more important.

Still find it annoying that companies think the 'punters' believe everything they put out there....bet hey what do we know.

If the clubs are the same length but different lofts and your getting the same launch angle then the club/ individual swing must have been slightly different at impact to create all the same stats madAdey, no?

 

[USER1999]

I can understand the delofting to decrease the launch angle, to counter the effect of a low c of g argument.

But why make the shafts longer?

 

[Martin70]

My irons are game improvement irons and have made me more consistent. The loft on them are ramped but I knew that when I bought them - I just made a list of the lofts compared to my old set and now just take a club which is numbered one less - my new 7 iron goes the same length on average as my old 6 iron so I have just got used to it.

When my mates ask what club did you take when I manage to hit a par 3 I used to point out that it was say a 6 but for your clubs that's a 5 - now I don't bother

 

[Imurg]

I can understand the delofting to decrease the launch angle, to counter the effect of a low c of g argument.

But why make the shafts longer?

I reckon they start with the wedge.
Most PW are similar in length - about 35 1/2 - 35 3/4 inches as standard.
Those in need of the GI/SGI clubs are not going to hit the middle of the club as often as those using players clubs - generally.
So the players club user can have a slightly shorter club, the longer clubs in GI will give a bit more distance on mi*****.
Players clubs increase in length by a smaller amount per club so when you get to 5 and 6 irons there can be 3/4 inch difference

That's my take - may be rubbish of course,.

The other answer is
Distance sells and many are buying!