Bunkers - should they be consistent

[williamalex1]

Not a lot of point when the bunker was frozen!

My point was can he rake the bunker before he drops his ball. He has already broke the frozen surface of the sand, and most likely left a big hole with his first stroke, so does he just drop into the hole or can he rake hard. ?

 

[NorfolkShaun]

Guess we're lucky then - we have 6 on the whole course!!

To be honest I quite like the bunkers most are well placed with very few not in play so it does make you think how you play the holes, however the ones with baked sand in you can just run straight through.

 

[Foxholer]

My point was can he rake the bunker before he drops his ball. He has already broke the frozen surface of the sand, and most likely left a big hole with his first stroke, so does he just drop into the hole or can he rake hard. ?

And mine was that, quite often, the sand is frozen so solid that there is only a tiny scuff mark showing where the ball was - and the rake mereley scrapes and bounces across the surface.

He did say bunker was 'frozen solid'. That would explin skinning the shot OB.

 

[ScienceBoy]

And mine was that, quite often, the sand is frozen so solid that there is only a tiny scuff mark showing where the ball was - and the rake mereley scrapes and bounces across the surface.

He did say bunker was 'frozen solid'. That would explin skinning the shot OB.

Would there be any issue with him having stood in the bunker first, attempting a stance in it THEN getting out and playing with stance outside the bunker? Would have helped gauge the status of the sand...

I ask this because I have done this, but not to test the sand, just to test the stance and shot I might play before deciding on a stance outside the bunker.

 

[williamalex1]

It must have been more like a iceberg if he couldn't break the surface with a full sand wedge.
But, if he could have raked the not so frozen solid sand before his drop, would that have been within the rules ?

 

[SocketRocket]

It must have been more like a iceberg if he couldn't break the surface with a full sand wedge.
But, if he could have raked the not so frozen solid sand before his drop, would that have been within the rules ?

Dont believe you can rake the area where you are playing the ball. The change in rule was to allow raking parts of the bunker that were left previously disturbed to assist with tidying up. Not to improve the lie.

 

[Foxholer]

But, if he could have raked the not so frozen solid sand before his drop, would that have been within the rules ?

Yes.

Same applies - bunker can be raked - if not frozen.

 

[williamalex1]

Dont believe you can rake the area where you are playing the ball. The change in rule was to allow raking parts of the bunker that were left previously disturbed to assist with tidying up.

That is what I'm asking , his ball is oob so he can drop , but CAN he rake before he drops EXPERTS ?

 

[SocketRocket]

That is what I'm asking , his ball is oob so he can drop , but CAN he rake before he drops EXPERTS ?

Not in the area he is playing the ball, that improves the lie. Its like not flattening the grass in the rough before dropping.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure how the discussion about frozen bunkers came up (isn't that subject of another post at the moment) - as my point was simply that a ball hit out of bounds from a bunker does not in itself constitute a NR (I'm sure the OP knows this )

But bunker consistency - some clearly think that the sand in all bunkers should be the same texture, feel and depth. Used to think that way myself until I worked out how to get a feel depth, texture and type of sand - and then work out the way to play the shot.

Strikes me any 'need' or 'demand' for consistency across all bunkers on a course is borne out of a bit of a feeling of it being unfair that things can be different from bunker to bunker and that this is something that only a player through experience can master. And oh dear - this means no instant 'fix' and therefore those who can play more will have an advantage over those who play less. And this is unfair?

 

[williamalex1]

Yes.

Same applies - bunker can be raked - if not frozen.

Sorry Foxy , I was posting the same time as you. Where can I find the definition of frozen in the book.?

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry Foxy , I was posting the same time as you. Where can I find the definition of frozen in the book.?

Why do you need to?

As I posted, same applies if it's not frozen.

As soon as ball is out of the bunker raking the bunker is fine. And there's a specific exception for the case where it lands in another bunker (raking a bunker similar to the one the ball is in is a prohibited action).

Once the ball is dropped (back) into the bunker, it's a different story (ball-game?) though.

 

[USER1999]

Why do you need to?

As I posted, same applies if it's not frozen.

As soon as ball is out of the bunker raking the bunker is fine. And there's a specific exception for the case where it lands in another bunker (raking a bunker similar to the one the ball is in is a prohibited action).

Once the ball is dropped (back) into the bunker, it's a different story (ball-game?) though.

How would you know if the next bunker is similar to the one you were last in? According to the OP, it should be different!

 

[Foxholer]

How would you know if the next bunker is similar to the one you were last in? According to the OP, it should be different!

Please enlighten me. Where in the Original Post does it say that?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As a minor diversion by me to the frozen solid sand - if so solid why are you playing to proper greens - you should be on temps as greens will likewise be frozen or nearly frozen and then you won't be playing in a qualifier.

Anyway - don't know why poster with frozen sand didn't just walk into the bunker to get a feel for the state of the bunker. Even if it appears obvious that the 'only' sensible shot is going to require a stance being taken outside of the bunker that is irrelevant - it is the player to decide what sort of shot is or is not appropriate - and if that requires walking into the bunker then so be it.

But be careful dear -player - do not make 'foot actions' that can be deemed to be solely as testing the condition of the sand...if you want to feel what the sand is like take a stance in the bunker and address the ball - it may not be anything like the shot you intend to play but if you can take a stance and address the ball then go for it. Well that's what I'd be inclined to do.

Also bear in mind that any disturbance of the surface of the bunker that results from this cannot be tidied up by you until after your ball as left the bunker as tidying a bunker is course maintenance that you cannot do if it might affect the lie of your ball for your next shot.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Guess we're lucky then - we have 6 on the whole course!!

That's not many - we've got 48 - and we have taken a few out over the last few years. But we have absolutely no water hazards other a few ditches that sometimes have water in them - and even these are in places you shouldn't really go.

 

[JustOne]

Our bunkers are rubbish, I hated them for ages. Now I think they're great. Some have no sand and you get a club stuffed with clay after playing out whilst others are stuffed with sand and it's all you can do to get the ball back in play. I see them as hazards now and a test of my skills. I've probably made more up-and-downs this year than any other (probably because my game is so crap I've visited more bunkers!!!)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our bunkers are rubbish, I hated them for ages. Now I think they're great. Some have no sand and you get a club stuffed with clay after playing out whilst others are stuffed with sand and it's all you can do to get the ball back in play. I see them as hazards now and a test of my skills. I've probably made more up-and-downs this year than any other (probably because my game is so crap I've visited more bunkers!!!)

That's the spirit!

 

[NorfolkShaun]

Pretty sure we have 74 bunkers on our course, we also have quote a lot of OB and three water hazards though two are more ditches and classed as lateral hazards, my only issue with so many bunkers is the cost to maintain thus the state of them.

it is the other course that has all the water

 

[hopeful]

Consistent? That's a pipe dream on our (proprietor-owned) course. Deep sand, no-sand-at-all, soft sand, raw sand complete with flints, weeds, puddles... we have to contend with the lot.:angry: