Bunkers GUR and Stance

[jim8flog]

Bit of a dispute going on between myself and another committee member.

We have declared all bunkers GUR, simple wording just that.

A player's ball sits outside of the bunker but his stance would be in the bunker.

I say the player gets relief for stance the other says not. Who is right?

 

[rulefan]

You​

16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)​

This Rule covers free relief that is allowed from interference by animal holes, ground under repair, immovable obstructions or temporary water:

a. When Relief Is Allowed​

(1) Meaning of Interference by Abnormal Course Condition. Interference exists when any one of these is true:​

• An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing, or ...

 

[Colin L]

Unless you have excepted interference to stance in a local rule, the second bullet point of 16.1a(1) is your reference for showing your fellow committee member he/she is mistaken.

 

[jim8flog]

You​

16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)​

This Rule covers free relief that is allowed from interference by animal holes, ground under repair, immovable obstructions or temporary water:

a. When Relief Is Allowed​

(1) Meaning of Interference by Abnormal Course Condition. Interference exists when any one of these is true:​

• An abnormal course condition physically interferes with the player’s area of intended stance or area of intended swing, or ...

Unless you have excepted interference to stance in a local rule, the second bullet point of 16.1a(1) is your reference for showing your fellow committee member he/she is mistaken.

Thanks I am aware of the wording .

Just needed it to be confirmed by a R.A. qualified ref so I can say that to him.

 

[rulefan]

This is what Colin is referring to but I would suggest it wouldn't or shouldn't apply unless for some odd reason the committee has decided to make the modification.

F-6 Prohibiting Relief from Abnormal Course Condition When Only Stance Interference Exists​

Purpose. A Committee may wish to deny relief for interference with the player’s stance from some conditions such as animal holes, as interference with the stance does not significantly affect the stroke or if relief for interference to the stance could result in repeatedly taking relief from nearby similar conditions.

Model Local Rule F-6​

“Rule 16.1 is modified in this way:

Relief is not allowed [insert condition from which relief is restricted] only interferes with the player’s stance.

 

[jim8flog]

This is what Colin is referring to but I would suggest it wouldn't or shouldn't apply unless for some odd reason the committee has decided to make the modification.

F-6 Prohibiting Relief from Abnormal Course Condition When Only Stance Interference Exists​

Purpose. A Committee may wish to deny relief for interference with the player’s stance from some conditions such as animal holes, as interference with the stance does not significantly affect the stroke or if relief for interference to the stance could result in repeatedly taking relief from nearby similar conditions.

Model Local Rule F-6​

“Rule 16.1 is modified in this way:

Relief is not allowed [insert condition from which relief is restricted] only interferes with the player’s stance.

Yes I know about that LR as well. Had to get the committee to retract it once as not being appropriate.

 

[Colin L]

I only mentioned the excluding stance bit for the sake of completeness but it would be inappropriate with regard to the GUR bunkers.

 

[tobybarker]

Thanks I am aware of the wording .

Just needed it to be confirmed by a R.A. qualified ref so I can say that to him.

The wording IS what you need to quote..... By definition.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks I am aware of the wording .

Just needed it to be confirmed by a R.A. qualified ref so I can say that to him.

There are at least 2 qualified referees in this thread.

 

[Patrick Reeds rules book.]

There are at least 2 qualified referees in this thread.

Eeeeek

 

[rulefan]

Bit of a dispute going on between myself and another committee member.

We have declared all bunkers GUR, simple wording just that.

A player's ball sits outside of the bunker but his stance would be in the bunker.

I say the player gets relief for stance the other says not. Who is right?

I have just realised you didn't say why all the bunkers were declared GUR. Please see the preamble to Local Rule F-16.

 

[jim8flog]

I have just realised you didn't say why all the bunkers were declared GUR. Please see the preamble to Local Rule F-16.

Extensive flooding throughout the course has resulted in bunkers that are not bunkers as we think of them. A great number of the bunkers have a lot of the sand washed out of them.

Yes I know about it but have given up arguing with the powers that be.

One of the obvious problems with a club like ours is there really is no one with the time to go round and inspect every single bunker on the course and make an individual decision and we clearly do not have enough markers to put one in each bunker.

 

[rulie]

Extensive flooding throughout the course has resulted in bunkers that are not bunkers as we think of them. A great number of the bunkers have a lot of the sand washed out of them.

Yes I know about it but have given up arguing with the powers that be.

One of the obvious problems with a club like ours is there really is no one with the time to go round and inspect every single bunker on the course and make an individual decision and we clearly do not have enough markers to put one in each bunker.

Practicalities on the course sometimes overrule things planned in an office.

 

[rulefan]

Extensive flooding throughout the course has resulted in bunkers that are not bunkers as we think of them. A great number of the bunkers have a lot of the sand washed out of them.

Yes I know about it but have given up arguing with the powers that be.

One of the obvious problems with a club like ours is there really is no one with the time to go round and inspect every single bunker on the course and make an individual decision and we clearly do not have enough markers to put one in each bunker.

Presumably you are not playing 'qualifiers' .

 

[jim8flog]

Presumably you are not playing 'qualifiers' .

We are barely playing at all

 

[rulefan]

I have just been told that pretty well all courses in the North Leeds and Harrogate area are seriously affected by the wet weather.

Scarcroft Closed
Rudding Park Closed
Harrogate Closed
Pannal Closed
Oakdale Closed
Knaresborough Closed
Wetherby Closed
Alwoodley Closed
Garforth Closed
Pike Hills Closed
Otley Closed
Ilkley Closed
Ripon Closed
Fulford Closed
Moortown Open with restrictions.
Sandmoor Open with restrictions.
and as it's pouring down now, it won't get any better.

 

[jim8flog]

Presumably you are not playing 'qualifiers' .

Last night I reminded myself about this thread
but sadly the link to EG no longer works

all bunkers declared GUR

It is strange, in the sense that Course Ratings and Bogey Ratings, I assume, take into account the position of bunkers. And rightly so, they can make a big difference to how the hole is played, and make greens and parts of the fairway narrow targets. You'd have thought taking the bunkers out of...

forums.golfmonthly.com