Bunker relief

[Rlburnside]

Some of our bunkers are full of water and no possibility of dropping in bunkers is there any ruling which states free relief from outside bunkers in this case?

Or can a club introduce a local rule stating free relief and allowing to drop outside bunker.

 

[Neilds]

A. No, free drop is only allowed in the bunker. If you want/have to drop outside it is a one shot penalty.

B. Model Local Rule F-16 - but this needs to specify the bunkers affected and should not be used as a blanket rule for all bunkers

 

[Oldbutwise]

Some of our bunkers are full of water and no possibility of dropping in bunkers is there any ruling which states free relief from outside bunkers in this case?

Or can a club introduce a local rule stating free relief and allowing to drop outside bunker.

As Nields states above. Here's a good explanation:

Relief from Flooded Bunkers

 

[Steven Rules]

In the absence of a Local Rule there is no free relief outside the bunker.

The Committee has the option to create a Local Rule to declare the bunker as GUR in the general area. See Model Local Rule F-16.

 

[Rlburnside]

Ok thanks all, free relief in some bunkers it is then

 

[rulefan]

Pretty sure it's a two shot penalty to drop outside the bunker. With regards to completely flooded bunkers you need a local rule GUR to get free relief.

16.1c(2)

For one penalty stroke, ......​

 

[backwoodsman]

Pretty sure it's a two shot penalty to drop outside the bunker. With regards to completely flooded bunkers you need a local rule GUR to get free relief.

See rulefan above.

I think you may be thinking of relief for an unplayable ball - which is two (ie 1+1) strokes if you want to drop outside the bunker

 

[bobmac]

I thought this was about a lack of ''facilities''

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Another one for the topic ‘Bunker Relief’.

The surrounds of our bunkers are built using recycled artificial turf. To avoid anyone claiming free relief from a surround on the grounds it is an immovable artificial obstruction, we have declared all bunker surrounds to be ‘integral objects’. Potential issue avoided.

However…what about the wooden steps we have from outside to inside a bunker…noting, if it makes a difference, that the riser of the bottom step is ‘flush’ with the bunker surround in which it is set. The steps are not specifically declared ‘integral objects’ and they are artificial and immovable…so free relief afforded? And if so I must find NPR within the bunker (where my stance or swing is not impeded or otherwise affected by the steps).

 

[backwoodsman]

The steps are indeed immovable obstuctions, so free relief is available. If the ball is in the bunker, then the free relief must also be in the bunker. If complete relief is not possible, then the point of maximum relief is used. Or, if you want, you can drop outside the bunker "back on a line" - but it’s not free and will cost you a shot. Rule 16.1c is your friend ...

 

[DickInShorts]

If the steps are at the point furthest from the hole (at the front of the bunker) how can you take relief and not be nearer the hole?

 

[clubchamp98]

If the steps are at the point furthest from the hole (at the front of the bunker) how can you take relief and not be nearer the hole?

We had this problem.
It’s just poor design.

 

[salfordlad]

Another one for the topic ‘Bunker Relief’.

The surrounds of our bunkers are built using recycled artificial turf. To avoid anyone claiming free relief from a surround on the grounds it is an immovable artificial obstruction, we have declared all bunker surrounds to be ‘integral objects’. Potential issue avoided.

However…what about the wooden steps we have from outside to inside a bunker…noting, if it makes a difference, that the riser of the bottom step is ‘flush’ with the bunker surround in which it is set. The steps are not specifically declared ‘integral objects’ and they are artificial and immovable…so free relief afforded? And if so I must find NPR within the bunker (where my stance or swing is not impeded or otherwise affected by the steps).

The Committee needs to be clear about whether the steps are in the bunker or in the general area - the relief options depend on that call.

If the steps are at the point furthest from the hole (at the front of the bunker) how can you take relief and not be nearer the hole?

If the steps are defined as in the bunker, this player is being dudded by the Committee and must play as lies or take penalty relief outside the bunker.

 

[Colin L]

The Committee needs to be clear about whether the steps are in the bunker or in the general area - the relief options depend on that call.


If the steps are defined as in the bunker, this player is being dudded by the Committee and must play as lies or take penalty relief outside the bunker.

I don't follow this and hope it isn't another of the misreadings I have lately been caught out by.

As the relief options depend solely on whether the ball is in the bunker or not, it doesn't matter whether the obstruction is in the general area or in the bunker. Determining whether a ball ball resting on the likes of steps which are partly in the bunker and partly in the general area is clearly covered in Rule 12.1.
I don't see anything that the Committee needs to clarify about the obstruction: whether a ball is in a bunker or not is clearly set out in the Rules and is wholly dependent on where the ball rests.

 

[Steven Rules]

I was just typing this when Colin's post popped up

Maybe we have different scenarios or layouts in mind but it is not clear to me what difference it makes if the steps themselves are in or outside tthe bunker. If the ball is in the bunker, the relief options are the same regardless of whether the steps are in or out. (Assuming the steps are not integral objects.)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The riser of the last step is in general flush with the artificial face of/surround to the bunker.

As a bunker is defined by the extent of the sand and the steps do not extend into the sand then as I see it the steps are outside of the bunker and therefore in the General Area. As they are in the General Area and are artificial, they are therefore an immovable artificial obstruction and as there is no LR declaring them Integral Objects, free relief is afforded - though the ball itself has to stay in the bunker unless it is resting on a tread, in which case it is in the General Area and NPR in the GA applies.

Well that’s one I think quite logical way of looking at it. Whether it’s right or not is another matter (close but not quite the same as @Colin L post, to which I’d defer)

 

[salfordlad]

I agree that the Rule itself provides full guidance. My point related to the Committee ensuring that course set up allows the rules to be applied without leaving the player wondering exactly what is intended or leave the player without clear relief options. I have seen some stair set ups (and other immovable obstructions) like that referred to in #12 above - where the player is forced to take penalty relief because the free relief option is simply not available as a consequence of the physical set up. That is not the intended role of bunkers.

 

[Colin L]

I agree that the Rule itself provides full guidance. My point related to the Committee ensuring that course set up allows the rules to be applied without leaving the player wondering exactly what is intended or leave the player without clear relief options. I have seen some stair set ups (and other immovable obstructions) like that referred to in #12 above - where the player is forced to take penalty relief because the free relief option is simply not available as a consequence of the physical set up. That is not the intended role of bunkers.

Thanks for that. It's a bit different from saying that the relief options are dependent on whether the steps are in the bunker or not but clear now. At club level I've found it essential that those in the business of setting up the course, making alterations etc liaise in advance with those with the rules knowledge. The need for that becomes all the more evident when it doesn't happen.

 

[clubchamp98]

Thanks for that. It's a bit different from saying that the relief options are dependent on whether the steps are in the bunker or not but clear now. At club level I've found it essential that those in the business of setting up the course, making alterations etc liaise in advance with those with the rules knowledge. The need for that becomes all the more evident when it doesn't happen.

Yes we had one where the steps in the bunker interfering was dependant on where the flag was.
If the flag was on the front there was room to take relief
But pin at the back nowhere to go .

They were removed.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Still not exactly sure what the answer to my question is…

But I think it is…that for a ball in one of our bunkers…if swing or stance impeded by bunker surround (the artificial turfs comprising the revetted surrounds being defined to be Integral Objects) then No Relief. If swing or stance impeded by steps built into the surround then free relief is provided as the steps are an immovable artificial obstruction not defined to be an Integral Object, but relief must be taken within the bunker.

I’ll add…to be confirmed by the club when I ask the question.