Not allowing relief from ball embedded on face of bunker

[KenL]

Played Gullane 3 yesterday and noticed that they have a local rule not allowing free relief from stacked turf above a bunker.
Surprised to see this. What is the reason for allowing this local rule and why would a club want to use this?
Thanks.

 

[rulefan]

Would this have prevented the recent McIlroy issu?

 

[KenL]

Would this have prevented the recent McIlroy issu?

Must have missed that.

 

[Colin L]

Played Gullane 3 yesterday and noticed that they have a local rule not allowing free relief from stacked turf above a bunker.
Surprised to see this. What is the reason for allowing this local rule and why would a club want to use this?
Thanks.View attachment 48736

The local rule is an authorised one: MLR F-2. As to why it is being used on Gullane 3, apart from the obvious because they think free relief is too easy a get out from that situation and that traditionally relief has not been allowed, I couldn't say. I think it's quite common on links courses to have that LR

 

[Colin L]

Would this have prevented the recent McIlroy issu?

I can't remember if it was a revetted bunker. If so, then yes it would have.

 

[rulefan]

I can't remember if it was a revetted bunker. If so, then yes it would have.

It wasn't. I was confusing the bunker at the Los Angeles Country Club which wasn't and the bunker at Hoylake which was.

 

[srixon 1]

Surely the riveted face is just part of the bunker, but it just so happens that there is no sand as it is a vertical face. We have a few bunkers that have a very steep face (over 50°) which are full of sand. If your ball plugs in there you get no relief. Same difference.

 

[rulefan]

Surely the riveted face is just part of the bunker, but it just so happens that there is no sand as it is a vertical face. We have a few bunkers that have a very steep face (over 50°) which are full of sand. If your ball plugs in there you get no relief. Same difference.

Bunker​

A specially prepared area of sand, which is often a hollow from which turf or soil was removed.

These are not part of a bunker:

• A lip, wall or face at the edge of a prepared area and consisting of soil, grass, stacked turf or artificial materials,

 

[jim8flog]

Surely the riveted face is just part of the bunker, but it just so happens that there is no sand as it is a vertical face. We have a few bunkers that have a very steep face (over 50°) which are full of sand. If your ball plugs in there you get no relief. Same difference.

No a rivetted face is not part of a bunker.

Definition

Bunker
A specially prepared area of sand, which is often a hollow from which turf or soil was
removed.
These are not part of a bunker:
• A lip, wall or face at the edge of a prepared area and consisting of soil, grass,
stacked turf or artificial materials,
• Soil or any growing or attached natural object inside the edge of a prepared
area (such as grass, bushes or trees),

 

[KenL]

Surely the riveted face is just part of the bunker, but it just so happens that there is no sand as it is a vertical face. We have a few bunkers that have a very steep face (over 50°) which are full of sand. If your ball plugs in there you get no relief. Same difference.

My understanding is that the face (above the sand) of any bunker is not part of the bunker.
To not allow free relief from an embedded ball on the face requires the introduction of a local rule.
My original post was asking why would a club do that?

 

[Bratty]

My understanding is that the face (above the sand) of any bunker is not part of the bunker.
To not allow free relief from an embedded ball on the face requires the introduction of a local rule.
My original post was asking why would a club do that?

Possibly because they don't want a load of people hacking the faces to buggery?

 

[KenL]

Possibly because they don't want a load of people hacking the faces to buggery?

But with free relief, nobody would do that.

 

[Bratty]

Ooops. Good point.
Only reason I can now think of is they want the course to still play hard in benign conditions? I've known some links courses to be fairly straightforward when it's calm and sunny.

 

[KenL]

Not so sure about that. My course has 100 bunkers, a mile long wall on one side, the sea on the other and pretty severe rough.

Ooops. Good point.
Only reason I can now think of is they want the course to still play hard in benign conditions? I've known some links courses to be fairly straightforward when it's calm and sunny.

 

[Bratty]

Not so sure about that. My course has 100 bunkers, a mile long wall on one side, the sea on the other and pretty severe rough.

I did say some, not all. I played The Old Course on a calm day, avoided every bunker and shot an 82, 3 under handicap, and that included a 7 on the 2nd. I'm not saying it was an easy course, but it was easier than when I played it the next time in 25mph winds, that's for sure.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am sticking by my assumption that the bunkers are what makes links courses so difficult and free relief from them would be of help.

 

[KenL]

I did say some, not all. I played The Old Course on a calm day, avoided every bunker and shot an 82, 3 under handicap, and that included a 7 on the 2nd. I'm not saying it was an easy course, but it was easier than when I played it the next time in 25mph winds, that's for sure.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am sticking by my assumption that the bunkers are what makes links courses so difficult and free relief from them would be of help.

Glad you got to experience the Old Course.
As a short course, it is not that hard. Most links courses are more difficult than the visitor version of there.
Play the likes of Carnoustie or Southerness or Goswick even on a calm day, off proper tees, you'll soon change your opinion.

 

[rulefan]

Glad you got to experience the Old Course.
As a short course, it is not that hard. Most links courses are more difficult than the visitor version of there.
Play the likes of Carnoustie or Southerness or Goswick even on a calm day, off proper tees, you'll soon change your opinion.

Played Carnoustie in the rain and wind - WOW

 

[KenL]

Played Carnoustie in the rain and wind - WOW

I've played it twice in less than 10mph winds, still a monster.
Not very enjoyable either, especially the last 3 holes.

 

[Bratty]

I've emailed Gullane and asked them.

 

[KenL]