Bunker Question , please

[bladeplayer]

Having a discussion last night & couldnt get agreement so id apreciate your advice ..

Ok the scenario is , you are in a fair way bunker and have a lash at it ,

(1) your ball plugs in the face of the bunker , in the soil not touching any sand .. unplayable ..

is it still in the hazzard or not .?

If its not in the hazzard.. i can just take the 1 shot penalty & 2 clublenghts not nearer the hole ..? correct ?
Where is the boundary of the bunker .. ? where the fairway stops or where the sand starts ?

BUT

If this is deemed part of the bunker , or to avoid any doubt say it is touching the sand, but still unplayable , but i now want relief from the bunker ,
would i first have to take the penalty drop from the plugged lie , then a further penalty drop from the bunker ...

Thanks


Hope this makes sence ,

 

[pbrown7582]

i believe it would still be in the bunker scenario 2, relief initially in the bunker, then further relief would be require to drop outside.
faces of bunkers are deemed to be part of hazard. Think lee westwood had a similar scenario in US open.

 

[rosecott]

Bunker
A “bunker’’ is a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground, often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like.

Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker. A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker. The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards.

A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker.

 

[bladeplayer]

Thank you both ..

 

[duncan mackie]

rosecott's quoted the definition, which would bring us back to the interpretation of the specific situation....

if the ball is embedded in soil rather than sand it's more likely that it's not in the bunker, add grass and it's definitely not, make the grass closely mown and you now have a free drop (25-2) and may even have a free drop if winter rules extend 25-2 TTG etc

regarding you further question, if you were in the bunker then yes, 25-2 wouldn't cover you and it's a 28 (unplayable) penalty drop. Your options are going to be where you played the previous shot (bunker), back on line as far as you want (but don't leave the bunker) and 2 club lengths not nearer the hole (and in the bunker.) Basically you are playing out of this bunker, not dropping, like it or not!

 

[Foxholer]

i believe it would still be in the bunker scenario 2, relief initially in the bunker, then further relief would be require to drop outside.
faces of bunkers are deemed to be part of hazard. Think lee westwood had a similar scenario in US open.

Rosecott has quoted the definition of Bunker from The Rules of Golf so this post is incorrect.

Westwood must have been plugged up the face, but still in sand.

(1) your ball plugs in the face of the bunker , in the soil not touching any sand .. unplayable ..

... or to avoid any doubt say it is touching the sand, but still unplayable , but i now want relief from the bunker ,
would i first have to take the penalty drop from the plugged lie , then a further penalty drop from the bunker ...

Be very careful how you proceed here! You really need to specify what you are doing - as, unlike relief from a water hazard, relief from an unplayable in the bunker must be in the bunker or where you last played the ball - which, of course was in the bunker! You cannot regress back to where it was played earlier! The only time you would get relief could get you outside the bunker is, before you took your lash, you declared it unplayable and proceeded under Stroke and Distance back to where you played the shot the put it into the bunker.

So, in summary. Yes, you can take relief from the plugged ball outside the bunker, but it would have to be applying 28.b as far back as you wish in line or 28 c. Two club lengths not nearer the hole. If as a result of the drop, ball ends up back in the bunker, the ball is in play, so you must 'start again'.

Hope that hasn't confused things too much.

I really only meant to point out that the only relief from a bunker is Stroke and Distance (save 1 rather spurious condition).