rulefan
Tour Winner
Sincere apologies.
It was Swinglowandslow who introduced it.
Bunker flooded - Relief?
- Thread starter SwingsitlikeHogan
- Start date
It was Swinglowandslow who introduced it.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Exactly.
In my post 94 I point out ( re his second paragraph) to SILH that he’s got the relief the wrong way round. The relief is taken by dropping the ball in the bunker, and that is the position you play from. If it so happens that the stance is in the general area, then so be it.
Ball dropped in bunker first, stance second.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I get all of that, but that doesn’t seem to address the issue of the stance following the drop in the bunker being in an abnormal ground condition in the GA and what the players options are for that, at that point.
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Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Cor Blimey
! Course it does address the issue. That’s what we’ve been addressing, much to KenL’s irritation .It goes like this…..you hit a ball into the bunker, when you get there it’s in water,.
You look where to drop it in the bunker. There’s lots of water. You can only drop it in the bunker towards the edge. So you do. But that means your stance is on the edge, in the general area.( If there wasn’t an area available to drop the ball in then you drop out under penalty in accordance with the sketch in the rule.)
So, you are stood on the edge ready to hit the ball out of the bunker. You came up with the question of…..what if standing there, you find yourself standing in water.
Can I get relief from that situation, free relief, and work it so that I’m able to hit the ball from a new position outside the bunker.
The experts here are saying that the players option are
1. Water in stance - tough. Play the ball from the bunker while. You’re stood in the GA water if you don’t want a penalty. OR
2. Drop the ball outside the bunker under penalty in accordance with the sketch in the rules and play from there.
Sorry it’s longwinded, but your post suggests you didn’t see the ‘order’ of events of taking relief.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Perfect thankyou - your 1. answers my query. Apologies to all others trying to get me to understand but due to my being...erm...well just sorry.Cor Blimey
It goes like this…..you hit a ball into the bunker, when you get there it’s in water,.
You look where to drop it in the bunker. There’s lots of water. You can only drop it in the bunker towards the edge. So you do. But that means your stance is on the edge, in the general area.( If there wasn’t an area available to drop the ball in then you drop out under penalty in accordance with the sketch in the rule.)
So, you are stood on the edge ready to hit the ball out of the bunker. You came up with the question of…..what if standing there, you find yourself standing in water.
Can I get relief from that situation, free relief, and work it so that I’m able to hit the ball from a new position outside the bunker.
The experts here are saying that the players option are
1. Water in stance - tough. Play the ball from the bunker while. You’re stood in the GA water if you don’t want a penalty. OR
2. Drop the ball outside the bunker under penalty in accordance with the sketch in the rules and play from there.
Sorry it’s longwinded, but your post suggests you didn’t see the ‘order’ of events of taking relief.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Always amusing when a simple relief question goes on for 3 pages when the answer was given very quickly
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
The answer was not clear to me - it may have been in the words used and/or my misunderstanding of the words used - probably the latter. It's easy to understand the answer to a rules question when, as a reader, you already know the answer. But if you don't then it's sometimes not quite that clear and easy.
Always amusing when a simple relief question goes on for 3 pages when the answer was given very quickly
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
It was very clear - it couldn’t have been any clearer
“The ball is in the bunker, so follow the rules for abnormal course conditions in the bunker (Rule 16.1c) regardless of where the stance is. ”
That is as clear as you can get
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
…since you are making the point I might suggest that ‘regardless of where the stance is’ is ambiguous, as it can be read to refer to location rather than also encompass ground conditions underfoot.
That said I am comfortable that I now understand the appropriate ruling.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
There was no ambiguity at all
Very clear
It can’t be read any differently unless someone is attempting mental gymnastics to try and get free relief
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Oh OK then - not ambiguous at all. .
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
Those words are the posters, it is the question about the nature of the stance which SILH queried, I.e. could it afford a way to better free relief.
Perfectly reasonable to discuss it, imo.
I respect the views of the experts on here, but their view is not beyond “what if” arguments being thrown into the mix.
Pretty much the reason for this particular forum, I.e discussion etc
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Oh It was clear what SILH was looking for
But the ruling highlighted in post 2 was as clear as you can get
rulefan
Tour Winner
Post 2 only needs one sentence
The ball is in the bunker, so follow the rules for abnormal course conditions for the ball in the bunker (Rule 16.1c) regardless of where the stance is.
The ball is in the bunker, so follow the rules for abnormal course conditions for the ball in the bunker (Rule 16.1c) regardless of where the stance is.
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
I’m not going to flog this, but I’ve just read 16(1)c and the bold words are not in it.
So, they are the words of the poster- fair enough, his ( expert ) opinion, and I respect it, but still ,I think , not immune from query, surely?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
The ball is in the bunker
Follow the rules for abnormal ground conditions for the ball in the bunker
Simple
Steven Rules
Well-known member
Cor Blimey! I am not going to flog this but they are not the words of the poster; they are the words in the Rules of Golf - 16.1c. It is not opinion; it is fact. (But, shucks, thanks for thinking I'm an expert.)
The heading of 16.1c uses the words (and I quote) "...ball in bunker" and the first sentence of 16.1c uses the words "If a player’s ball is in a bunker...."
rulefan
Tour Winner
Really?
Swinglowandslow
Well-known member
The words I made bold from your post, I.e. the end ones…yes they aren’t in 16(1)c
“for the ball” were already bold in your post. Must admit, I didn’t notice that, so…
call it a draw?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
In my reading of it, it wasn’t …it was clear as far as it went, but to my reading it didn’t cover conditions underfoot - but there you go. As I said previously…some explanations or answers to a question are as clear as day to the reader who already knows the answer - but perhaps less so to the reader who doesn’t.
I was quite simply seeking clarification on the relevant rules given, in this case, a purely hypothetical scenario that occurred to me as I pondered on free relief options when a ball is in a flooded bunker that had not been declared GUR.
And why should I so ponder had I no other ‘agenda’? Well quite simply I’m interested in, let’s call it being a student of, the Rules of Golf - that’s why. Wasn’t looking for anything else.
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