Build in muscle memory

[Scouser]

Oh and to take it to very basics....

A new baby learning to walk .....muscle and brain working together and learning or just the brain?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And that sentence means your body has learnt/remembered the wrong movement

Not strictly true. I'm just saying that for an average golfer like me, there is usually something else in my swing that will fall out of kilter. It means I might be working on the drills and executing that specific change properly but my overall game and swing isn't strong enough to prevent another flaw creeping in

 

[Scouser]

Not strictly true. I'm just saying that for an average golfer like me, there is usually something else in my swing that will fall out of kilter. It means I might be working on the drills and executing that specific change properly but my overall game and swing isn't strong enough to prevent another flaw creeping in

Yes which is why I said 10000 correct repetitions .... not 9999 wrong ones

 

[RGDave]

It is your brain that remembers and your brain does control the movements. It is your body working as one that allows an operation to be carried out but your body does learn the movement.

Nice. I agree.

 

[One Planer]

Gareth you are very true I was putting it in very simplistic terms....

It is your brain that remembers and your brain does control the movements. It is your body working as one that allows an operation to be carried out but your body does learn the movement.

2 examples ....


Close your eyes and touch your nose you will probably be able to do it if not dont open your eyes and try again you will again probably do it....muscle memory? or the brain adjusting?

What you describe is, IMO a cross between propreoception (Or propreoceptive sense) and kinesthesia, which you could argue or are probably the same. It's the same as walking in the dark without falling over.

You could argue that learning something in the golf swing is propreoceptive, otherwise you'd be looking at your hands all the way through the swing to know where the club was.

Second

Can you take your stance and hit a ball with your eyes closed??? again muscle memory?

As previous. Close your eyes and touch your nose, you know where your hand are, Translate that to a golf swing, you know where your hands are, but you would have to guess where the club head is.

Take something you see on every course up and down the country every day. A person making a swing and looking for the ball before they hit it, what happens? Duff, thin, miss etc.

Although propreoceptive sense plays a part in the swing having the neural connections for the technique and timing play equal, if not a bigger part.

 

[Scouser]

What you describe is, IMO a cross between propreoception (Or propreoceptive sense)

You could argue that learning something in the golf swing is propreoceptive, otherwise you'd be looking at your hands all the way through the swing to know where the club was.

Although propreoceptive sense plays a part in the swing having the neural connections for the technique and timing play equal, if not a bigger part.

I agree with what you are saying but to "know" where your hands are means you have learnt that procedure.

So take two swings with your eyes shut

Swing one is a horrible over the top swing with your eyes shut....does your feed back come from the brain or does it come from the arms and the muscles sending a signal back that they were not on plane.

Swing 2 perfect again feedback from brain or muscles

 

[One Planer]

I agree with what you are saying but to "know" where your hands are means you have learnt that procedure.

So take two swings with your eyes shut

Swing one is a horrible over the top swing with your eyes shut....does your feed back come from the brain or does it come from the arms and the muscles sending a signal back that they were not on plane.

Swing 2 perfect again feedback from brain or muscles

I see what you mean.

But....

It comes down to the technique you have already learned and have. Your technique doesn't change because you close your eyes.

Your brain has already learned how to swing a golf club and "knows" what to do to perform the action.

The only variant being vision and the ability to see the ball you're looking to hit.

The feel comes from your brain (Motor cortex or cerebellum, I forget which) receiving the return nerve signals and interpreting the information.

Your muscles don't understand "feel" they only understand what they are told to do by the brain and CNS (Central Nervous System), your brain interprets all nerve data it receives as a result of the movement. Call it spatial awareness or propreoception, either way its nerve impulses interpreted by the brain as a result of the stimulus provided.

 

[Scouser]

I see what you mean.

But....

It comes down to the technique you have already learned and have. Your technique doesn't change because you close your eyes.

Your brain has already learned how to swing a golf club and "knows" what to do to perform the action.

The only variant being vision and the ability to see the ball you're looking to hit.

The feel comes from your brain (Motor cortex cerebellum, I forget which) receiving the return nerve signals and interpreting the information.

Your muscles don't understand "feel" they only understand what they are told to do by the brain and CNS (Central Nervous System), your brain interprets all nerve data it receives as a result of the movement. Call it spatial awareness or propreoception, either way its nerve impulses interpreted by the brain as a result of the stimulus provided.

Like I say I agree that muscles have no true memory (although DNA of the muscle may have memory but thats another thread lol) and it is about feel and everything we do and feel is controlled by the brain.

But muscle memory IMO does happen for the simplicity of coaching. Yes it is the pathways in the brain making the connections like you stated previously but as a coach to explain to a pupil that x number of hits will train the muscle memory although biologically incorrect is a lot easier for everyone to understand.

The muscles provide the feedback for the brain to learn to learn (I am not disagreeing with you at all)

Back on topic I am sticking to about 10000 hits all correct to reprogram the pathways of the brain (thumbs up smiley)

 

[One Planer]

I'd agree.

For simplicitys sake, perform the correct action often enough and it will soon become natural.

Everyone will vary but it's never instant

 

[Scouser]

I'd agree.

For simplicitys sake, perform the correct action often enough and it will soon become natural.

Everyone will vary but it's never instant

Now the big question..... how many stack and tilt swings have you tried

hahahaha

 

[One Planer]

Now the big question..... how many stack and tilt swings have you tried

hahahaha

Lots