Brexit Two Months On

[Hobbit]

interesting radio show>>
Discussing Home Secretary Amber Rudd's push to make firms list foreign workers, James O'Brien's startling point will stop you in your tracks
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-amber-rudds-speech-echoes-mein-kampf/

views are that of the presenter, i m the messenger (but dont let that stop anyone from shooting me)

I support it. It's a shocking and disgraceful view from the Home Sec

Firms already jump through hoops with the Home Office for non-EU workers. And the Home Office contact the firm when the visa is due to expire. I presume that means there's already a list.

 

[the smiling assassin]

Another crock of gold from you. People voting were not doing it to better the lot of people in the EU, do you think they give a toss about us.

Sometimes I genuinely despair at the rhetoric spat out on this type of thread. It makes me ashamed to be British to think that this type of attitude has 'won'.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Interesting that the Tory Government are targeting foreign workers.
What about foreign business owners.
I always thought that everyone was a worker no matter what position they hold in the company/business.

 

[SocketRocket]

Sometimes I genuinely despair at the rhetoric spat out on this type of thread. It makes me ashamed to be British to think that this type of attitude has 'won'.

I see, any view contrary to your own is rhetoric and any that conforms is acceptable. Also, to consider democratic decisions as 'Win' or 'Lose' is rather narrow thinking.

In my spat out opinion of course.

 

[SocketRocket]

Honestly - you are surely having a laugh...

Just for a start the @ColchesterFC post that I replied to concluded with the words

A simple yes or no would be fine.

And so I answered - Yes.

What in Gods name is 'one-sided' or 'anti-British' about that?

If sovereignty is the great desired of Leave then that means the UK can make it's own decisions without having to take into account the actions of others. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever and no imperative that demands or requires the UK government to expel 3million immigrants working and settled in the UK. And frankly to think of that that being a reasonable thing to do, in whatever circumstances, is itself totally unbelievable and appalling.

I can only think of one similar event - that of 1972 - when Idi Amin ethnically-cleansed Asians from his country. I can recall UK politicians of all shades being appalled at such an act; an inhumane act of a mad tyrant - as were the media and the UK populace appalled and then welcoming to 27,500 expelled Ugandan Asians.

And yet some in the government - and it would appear in the general electorate - seem think that a mass expulsion is OK - on purely political grounds. Not economic, not social, not cultural - but political. I hope it is simply because there is nothing yet thought through in the pipeline to offer for the control immigration and so it is flung out there to keep the Leavers happy.

Even to propose that the workplace identifies all those employees who are not of British 'stock' stinks. These are not the actions and thinking of the government of a country I would be proud to call my own. And for that I am called 'anti-British' - though it appears that this is the sort of accusation and name-calling that is going to be chucked at anyone who does not buy into Brexit-patriotism rot.

Your post is typical of the way you think. So the Government wants to carry out the wishes of a majority of people in this country who would like better controls on immigration and the effects it has on jobs and wages for British people, they also want to ensure British Employers are doing their best to supply training and support to people in the country so that they have opportunities to better their lives. Having a clear picture of how many employees are foreign has to be necessary before considering how to plan policy.

You and a number of other posters who appear to see the worst in anything the Government do have taken this as the starting pistol to throw millions of people out of the country, some are even making comparisons with Hitler and the Nazis. It's just stupid/deceitful trouble making to suggest this and anyone doing it should be ashamed of themselves.

Here is another question that you can answer Yes or No to. Do you honestly believe that the Government is planning to unilaterally expel millions of Foreign Workers from the UK?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your post is typical of the way you think. So the Government wants to carry out the wishes of a majority of people in this country who would like better controls on immigration and the effects it has on jobs and wages for British people, they also want to ensure British Employers are doing their best to supply training and support to people in the country so that they have opportunities to better their lives. Having a clear picture of how many employees are foreign has to be necessary before considering how to plan policy.

You and a number of other posters who appear to see the worst in anything the Government do have taken this as the starting pistol to throw millions of people out of the country, some are even making comparisons with Hitler and the Nazis. It's just stupid/deceitful trouble making to suggest this and anyone doing it should be ashamed of themselves.

Here is another question that you can answer Yes or No to. Do you honestly believe that the Government is planning to unilaterally expel millions of Foreign Workers from the UK?

I desperately hope that they are not serious.

But by raising it and non-UK immigrant registration as possibility and then using the residency status of 3million people up in the air as a bargaining chip is abhorrent. Those who wanted to Leave have brought this upon themselves. Those immigrants here legally and building there lives here are blameless - yet some find it OK to have this 'threat' hanging over them. I am shocked - but not surprised in this post-Brexit era - that intelligent people can think the mere possibility of such things happening to be reasonable.

So @SR - tell me that you would absolutely encourage the government to 100% guarantee the residency of all non-UK immigrant residents of the UK - no ifs - no buts. We have instigated this mess - if EU countries choose to kick out UK nationals for whatever reason, or large numbers of UK national choose to return home - then it is our responsibility to accommodate them back in the UK.

 

[SocketRocket]

I desperately hope that they are not serious.

But by raising it and non-UK immigrant registration as possibility and then using the residency status of 3million people up in the air as a bargaining chip is abhorrent. Those who wanted to Leave have brought this upon themselves. Those immigrants here legally and building there lives here are blameless - yet some find it OK to have this 'threat' hanging over them. I am shocked - but not surprised in this post-Brexit era - that intelligent people can think the mere possibility of such things happening to be reasonable.

So @SR - tell me that you would absolutely encourage the government to 100% guarantee the residency of all non-UK immigrant residents of the UK - no ifs - no buts. We have instigated this mess - if EU countries choose to kick out UK nationals for whatever reason, or large numbers of UK national choose to return home - then it is our responsibility to accommodate them back in the UK.

Your one sided attitude to this mater reflects your blinkered and unreasonable view to anything this Government does. Any reasonable minded person would understand the view that EU Nationals living in the UK will be able to retain their right to residence on the basis that UK Citizens living in the EU would be given the same guarantees. Using your reasoning it must be OK to kick them out as it's the responsibility of their Homeland to accomodate them back.

What an Unbelievably biased attitude you have.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Your one sided attitude to this mater reflects your blinkered and unreasonable view to anything this Government does. Any reasonable minded person would understand the view that EU Nationals living in the UK will be able to retain their right to residence on the basis that UK Citizens living in the EU would be given the same guarantees. Using your reasoning it must be OK to kick them out as it's the responsibility of their Homeland to accomodate them back.

What an Unbelievably biased attitude you have.

You seem to have air brushed this government's attitude via Rudd's comments at the Tory party conference out of your equation.
As of this moment I have not heard an EU politician say they would return UK EU workers. [Le Penn probably has though!]

 

[SocketRocket]

You seem to have air brushed this government's attitude via Rudd's comments at the Tory party conference out of your equation.
As of this moment I have not heard an EU politician say they would return UK EU workers. [Le Penn probably has though!]

And you seem to have airbrushed what Rudd and this Government have actually said. No where have they suggested sending back millions of EU citizens, that only takes place in your and some others here's biased and blinkered minds. Shame on you.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your one sided attitude to this mater reflects your blinkered and unreasonable view to anything this Government does. Any reasonable minded person would understand the view that EU Nationals living in the UK will be able to retain their right to residence on the basis that UK Citizens living in the EU would be given the same guarantees. Using your reasoning it must be OK to kick them out as it's the responsibility of their Homeland to accomodate them back.

What an Unbelievably biased attitude you have.

It's not just me - do you actually read anything of what the political and news commentators say. Or read the likes of the Daily Telegraph - which today reported on it's front page that, come exit from EU after the 2yrs period following Art50, 80% of EU immigrants in the UK will have legal right to remain and cannot legally be thrown out of the UK - and it reports that the other 20% (800,000) at that point will be given an amnesty and allowed to stay.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Your post is typical of the way you think. So the Government wants to carry out the wishes of a majority of people in this country who would like better controls on immigration and the effects it has on jobs and wages for British people, they also want to ensure British Employers are doing their best to supply training and support to people in the country so that they have opportunities to better their lives. Having a clear picture of how many employees are foreign has to be necessary before considering how to plan policy.

You and a number of other posters who appear to see the worst in anything the Government do have taken this as the starting pistol to throw millions of people out of the country, some are even making comparisons with Hitler and the Nazis. It's just stupid/deceitful trouble making to suggest this and anyone doing it should be ashamed of themselves.

Here is another question that you can answer Yes or No to. Do you honestly believe that the Government is planning to unilaterally expel millions of Foreign Workers from the UK?

Can you compare th Home Sec's speech with Mein Kampf and say they are completely and wildly different, with no common phraseology?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Can you compare th Home Sec's speech with Mein Kampf and say they are completely and wildly different, with no common phraseology?

Wow the Home Sec delivered her conference speech in German? That's very impressive - I struggled with German at school!!

 

[ColchesterFC]

It's not just me - do you actually read anything of what the political and news commentators say. Or read the likes of the Daily Telegraph - which today reported on it's front page that, come exit from EU after the 2yrs period following Art50, 80% of EU immigrants in the UK will have legal right to remain and cannot legally be thrown out of the UK - and it reports that the other 20% (800,000) at that point will be given an amnesty and allowed to stay.

So what is the problem then? If 80% will be legally allowed to stay and the other 20% will be given an amnesty and allowed to stay why are you and others getting you knickers in a twist about the nasty Tory party throwing them out if it's not true?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

So what is the problem then? If 80% will be legally allowed to stay and the other 20% will be given an amnesty and allowed to stay why are you and others getting you knickers in a twist about the nasty Tory party throwing them out if it's not true?

Seems sensible to me! Surely if any non-UK citizens are working here legally, paying taxes and contributing to the country's coffers, then they should be allowed to stay......if they want to of course. Cannot see any problem with an immigration policy that welcomes skilled labour where it is needed.

 

[SocketRocket]

It's not just me - do you actually read anything of what the political and news commentators say. Or read the likes of the Daily Telegraph - which today reported on it's front page that, come exit from EU after the 2yrs period following Art50, 80% of EU immigrants in the UK will have legal right to remain and cannot legally be thrown out of the UK - and it reports that the other 20% (800,000) at that point will be given an amnesty and allowed to stay.

So whats wrong with that, the Government is allowing them to stay. They are not considering throwing them all out or creating a 'Final Solution' as some of you are indicating.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So what is the problem then? If 80% will be legally allowed to stay and the other 20% will be given an amnesty and allowed to stay why are you and others getting you knickers in a twist about the nasty Tory party throwing them out if it's not true?

Because we all know that they are desperately grasping for the UKIP votes ........only the law and worldwide condemnation is stopping them.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Because we all know that they are desperately grasping for the UKIP votes ........only the law and worldwide condemnation is stopping them.

Based upon the GE last year and the EU Referendum it would appear that Corbyn has, at least, as much if not more to worry about as far as voters drifting to UKIP.

Many of those Conservative voters who moved may now return feeling it is "mission accomplished" following the vote to leave. I am not certain the Labour deserters will be so willing as that party seems reluctant to admit that they have suffered from voters switching to UKIP.

The latter may now be seen by some as pointless but that does not guarantee return to the traditional parties.

As for the issue of foreign workers I cannot see where it has ever been suggested that lists or repatriation were to become Government policy, they were discussion points and these will often extend to include a wide range of opinion.

Neither can I see the so called similarity between the utterances of May and Rudd and the contents of Mein Kampf.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So whats wrong with that, the Government is allowing them to stay. They are not considering throwing them all out or creating a 'Final Solution' as some of you are indicating.

Because the likes of Liam Fox are indicating that a guarantee cannot be given - that residency of existing migrants is a bargaining chip that we cannot 'give away'.

And all this does is raise expectations in many Leavers that there is a possibility that all existing non-UK EU-nationals living in the UK could be told to leave; and wouldn't that make things oh so much better. And when it doesn't happen - as it won't - there will be huge resentments to all of those who thought it might come about - and who, for instance, find a Pole in front of them in the queue for a GP appointment. Meanwhile all non-UK EU-immigrants feel they have the sword of Damocles is hanging over them- and that is just appalling - and it is neither British - nor Christian (as we seem to think we still are and of which we live it's values)

 

[MarkE]

Because the likes of Liam Fox are indicating that a guarantee cannot be given - that residency of existing migrants is a bargaining chip that we cannot 'give away'.

What's wrong with that? Like it or not, when it comes to disentangling from the eu, we need to have equal leverage on everything, why give them any edge in negotiations. If the eu came out and said all UK nationals within the eu will be able to remain where they are if they choose then we would reciprocate. At last we have a government willing to stand up for the UK.

 

[the smiling assassin]

What's wrong with that? Like it or not, when it comes to disentangling from the eu, we need to have equal leverage on everything, why give them any edge in negotiations. If the eu came out and said all UK nationals within the eu will be able to remain where they are if they choose then we would reciprocate. At last we have a government willing to stand up for the UK.

Because using fellow human beings, their lives and their families as a bargaining chip is a callous act in the extreme. Is there not even an ounce of you that feels compassion for the situation of others without your exquisite British pedigree or do you simply not care?