Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

The thing is, European Federalism has never been popular.... but the non stop barrage of pro EU messages designed to change this didn't actually work.. It's not just here either, Referenda in other countries would be really interesting.....as I found out when working in France.

Brexit didn't divide us, we were already divided by the morphing of a trading bloc into a full blown country without bothering to ask anyone if they approved. Listed to the multiple EU Presidents talking on the subject. The have stopped pretending now, but they must break Brexit or the rush for the door will be massive...

The genie is out of the bottle. Like the USSR... people eventually say "enough!"

I'd suggest there is some slight rewriting of history there. Yes there was unease about Europe as there always has been in some parts of the Tory party and The Daily Mail opinion writers. But we were no way divided anywhere near what we are now. As the article said, Europe was nowhere near the top of the list of voters concerns before 2016 and also Brexit was not primarily about our membership of the EU anyway. And drawing any sort of parallel or comparison with conditions in the USSR where we are throwing off an evil oppressive regime is sub Daily Express level tosh. IMHO

 

[robinthehood]

The thing is, European Federalism has never been popular.... but the non stop barrage of pro EU messages designed to change this didn't actually work.. It's not just here either, Referenda in other countries would be really interesting.....as I found out when working in France.

Brexit didn't divide us, we were already divided by the morphing of a trading bloc into a full blown country without bothering to ask anyone if they approved. Listed to the multiple EU Presidents talking on the subject. The have stopped pretending now, but they must break Brexit or the rush for the door will be massive...

The genie is out of the bottle. Like the USSR... people eventually say "enough!"

What a load of hysterical BS.

like the USSR

 

[SocketRocket]

What a load of hysterical BS.

like the USSR

Great counter debate 🙄

 

[SocketRocket]

I'd suggest there is some slight rewriting of history there. Yes there was unease about Europe as there always has been in some parts of the Tory party and The Daily Mail opinion writers. But we were no way divided anywhere near what we are now. As the article said, Europe was nowhere near the top of the list of voters concerns before 2016 and also Brexit was not primarily about our membership of the EU anyway. And drawing any sort of parallel or comparison with conditions in the USSR where we are throwing off an evil oppressive regime is sub Daily Express level tosh. IMHO

Surely his comparrison with the USSR is not related to evil opression but a growing super state that history shows us always ends up a disaster as it gradually saps away countries soverignty and peoples democracy.

 

[robinthehood]

Surely his comparrison with the USSR is not related to evil opression but a growing super state that history shows us always ends up a disaster as it gradually saps away countries soverignty and peoples democracy.

I think you need to brush up on your modern history.

 

[Hobbit]

Surely his comparrison with the USSR is not related to evil opression but a growing super state that history shows us always ends up a disaster as it gradually saps away countries soverignty and peoples democracy.

There was a great piece done by a Cambridge Uni professor several years ago in which he draws a number of comparisons between the growing centralisation(federalism) of the EU and how a number of states within the USSR forced the breakup of Russia by decentralisation. There was no Brexit bias to it, or there didn't seem to be. The referendum hadn't even happened.

The conclusion, short version; if the EU continues to centralise, especially as the Southern European states come out of recession and stabilise, there will be a growing unrest. However, he qualified that by saying that is based on the assumption that the Commission doesn't react in a positive, unconfrontational, way to the need for change.

My own view; the Southern European states receive an nice little lump from the EU. Would they be willing to give that up? TBH, I don't think they can afford to. To do so would in all probability see them fall back into recession.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think you need to brush up on your modern history.

My grasp of history is very good, the point I made runs deep through history including the British and Roman Empires. If you have a challenge then please try to articulate it in more than an unsubstantiated one liner.
Read the post above as a perfect example of an educated reply.

 

[User62651]

So Labour win Peterborough, Nigel spinning it but must be deflated. Getting MPs is not so easy.
Well done Peterborough voters, some sanity prevails.

 

[robinthehood]

So Labour win Peterborough, Nigel spinning it but must be deflated. Getting MPs is not so easy.
Well done Peterborough voters, some sanity prevails.

Yes and in what was a high vote leave area too.

 

[Fade and Die]

So Labour win Peterborough, Nigel spinning it but must be deflated. Getting MPs is not so easy.
Well done Peterborough voters, some sanity prevails.

Electing a Marxist anti-Semite to replace a disgraced criminal is sanity? 😱😱😱

 

[jp5]

Wow. Expected TBP to take Peterboro, though difficult without a manifesto!

Looks like they are taking mostly CON voters - spells big trouble for them at the next GE.

 

[Hobbit]

Electing a Marxist anti-Semite to replace a disgraced criminal is sanity? 😱😱😱

The Labour Party's own official Jewish section asked for her deselection, and refused to canvas in Peterborough, yet she still gets in. Two things from that, Labour/foot in mouth? and the people in Peterborough don't mind voting in an anti-semite fruit loop - the CIA and Mossad created Islamic extremist groups, apparently...

 

[Deleted member 1147]

May be it just shows the value of a political party having a manifesto, and some policies, which aren't just Brexit, Brexit, Brexit.

 

[robinthehood]

Surely his comparrison with the USSR is not related to evil opression but a growing super state that history shows us always ends up a disaster as it gradually saps away countries soverignty and peoples democracy.

Yes so much so that some of those former ussr states joined the EU.

 

[IanM]

Yes so much so that some of those former ussr states joined the EU.

Yes, they thought it was more democratic! They got bundles of cash and the opportunity to export their unemployment!

Now, they find they've replaced one bad system with another, their brightest and best have cleared off to the West and the cash is running out!

Watch this space....

 

[robinthehood]

Yes, they thought it was more democratic! They got bundles of cash and the opportunity to export their unemployment!

Now, they find they've replaced one bad system with another, their brightest and best have cleared off to the West and the cash is running out!

Watch this space....

Ultimately humanity will have to come together on an unprecedented scale if it's to survive what ever global catastrophes come our way. And they will come .
So little Englanders running around screaming about brexit when we should be forming ever closer ties for the sake of future generations is sad.

 

[drdel]

Yes and in what was a high vote leave area too.

The margin was a bit below 700 voters: winning with about 30% (10484) of the votes cast. Considering that the numbers still voting Tory (7243) would contain both leave and remain voters its hardly a ringing endorsement of Labour. Thus almost twice as many did not vote for Labour 18,000.

It demonstrates that in our system there is a danger that the 'winner' could easily be one that the vast majority don't want. When the TBP and Tories divide opinions the chance that Mr Corbyn ends up as PM is increased.

 

[Foxholer]

I think you need to brush up on your modern history.

Nothing wrong with SR's 'model' of history imo.

Perhaps you should consider brushing up on your 'interpretation of posts' skills though - or consider asking for clarification - before leaping to what seems to me (and I may, of course be wrong) to be a wrong interpretation!

 

[robinthehood]

Nothing wrong with SR's 'model' of history imo.

Perhaps you should consider brushing up on your 'interpretation of posts' skills though - or consider asking for clarification - before leaping to what seems to me (and I may, of course be wrong) to be a wrong interpretation!

You're wrong. But thanks for your input.

 

[Foxholer]

...Read the post above as a perfect example of an educated reply.

Now now! 'Proper' or 'appropriate' certainly! But education/qualfications generally has/have virtually nothing to do with 'quality of reply'!