Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Sweep]

UK...……. we are leaving you.
EU...……...sorry to hear that
UK...……..ah but we are only leaving you under our terms and these are our red lines.
EU...……..Ok that seems fair we agree.
A few weeks later
UK...……..hang on we also want X,Y and Z
EU ………..sorry we have an agreement.

Really tough sods to negotiate with them EU blighters.

Utter rubbish and devoid of reality

 

[SocketRocket]

Twaddle!

That's correct, they shoved it up his twaddle. 😉

 

[harpo_72]

Not picking on this post but the sentiment. Why do the leavers think the EU has not negotiated in good faith. The EU have maintained a straight bat on what they wanted all along. The incompetence of a weak govt that wants to pander to the extreme right along with a weak opposition that can get their heads out of their backsides mean that we havent been able to get our side sorted. We expected all the German auto manufacturers will force their government to get a good deal - this has not materialised instead we have the like of Porsche which have said prices will rise 10% because of Brexit and customers will have to pay for it.

Dont blame the EU for having a strong position.

If Scotland had voted for its independence and this was a Scotland v England debate, I am sure England would be taking a hard line (just as EU is doing). So lets stop blaming them for our failure

I love the blame culture here, it’s everyone else’s fault, it’s not going to plan, the EU are not rolling over , the remainers are sabotaging our great idea ....

 

[Sweep]

Not picking on this post but the sentiment. Why do the leavers think the EU has not negotiated in good faith. The EU have maintained a straight bat on what they wanted all along. The incompetence of a weak govt that wants to pander to the extreme right along with a weak opposition that can get their heads out of their backsides mean that we havent been able to get our side sorted. We expected all the German auto manufacturers will force their government to get a good deal - this has not materialised instead we have the like of Porsche which have said prices will rise 10% because of Brexit and customers will have to pay for it.

Dont blame the EU for having a strong position.

If Scotland had voted for its independence and this was a Scotland v England debate, I am sure England would be taking a hard line (just as EU is doing). So lets stop blaming them for our failure

Like most aspects of this issue, we have discussed this before. Hardly surprising over 16k+ posts.
The reason why these negotiations have taken so long and have not as yet been successful is mainly because neither side has negotiated in good faith. The UK has reluctantly negotiated for something the negotiators themselves don’t want and the EU has negotiated first and foremost to protect its own project. The UK leaving is a massive threat to the EU project.
Now, some say that by taking a “hard line” that protects the project and in turn serves its people. The reality though is very different. The “hard line” is not actually a hard line at all. It’s really just them being obstructive. If we take just one example (and there are many) the EU has refused to discuss a trade deal in tandem with the Withdrawal Agreement and before the WA is signed. You may have a view on that, but I doubt you would have the same view if you were an EU citizen whose job depended on trade with the UK. We are not talking about a few jobs here. And in a union where youth unemployment alone is running at huge levels, it’s not a gamble a responsible government should be taking. If we are honest, the EU doesn’t need to take such a gamble. It should be welcoming a trade deal with the UK, just like it has done with Japan and Canada. So why won’t it even entertain the thought? Why won’t it put its people first? Because the project comes first. And if it’s easy for the UK to leave, then that is certainly going to get the attention of a few other disgruntled nations.

 

[Sweep]

It finally looks like the prospect of no deal is dawning. Just today we received notification from HMRC that no EC Sales Lists will be required after March in the event of no deal. In addition we have been notified that HMRC have put plans in place for a Transitional Simplified Procedure for importers from the EU to prevent ports being blocked.

 

[Fade and Die]

OOOOO.... looks like a second referendum now thanks to Jeremy.

Can anyone think of an occasion when Corbyn has actually stood up for the British? He calls for unlimited immigration, is known to have supported the IRA, supports Hamas, Hezbollah and other known Islamic terrorist groups, has denied laying a wreath on the graves of terrorists who attacked the Israeli team at the Munich Olympics, despite having been photographed doing so, he wants to hand the Falklands to Argentina and Gibraltar to Spain, and turn Britain into Venezuela. Seriously, has he actually done anything in support of Britain? He’s a modern day Quisling.

 

[Foxholer]

That's correct, they shoved it up his twaddle. 😉

Prove it - or admit you post was...well...twaddle!

 

[Foxholer]

It finally looks like the prospect of no deal is dawning. Just today we received notification from HMRC that no EC Sales Lists will be required after March in the event of no deal. In addition we have been notified that HMRC have put plans in place for a Transitional Simplified Procedure for importers from the EU to prevent ports being blocked.

At least it shows that action IS being taken to mitigate consequences of 'No Deal'.

More paperwork and cost though!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Can anyone think of an occasion when Corbyn has actually stood up for the British? He calls for unlimited immigration, is known to have supported the IRA, supports Hamas, Hezbollah and other known Islamic terrorist groups, has denied laying a wreath on the graves of terrorists who attacked the Israeli team at the Munich Olympics, despite having been photographed doing so, he wants to hand the Falklands to Argentina and Gibraltar to Spain, and turn Britain into Venezuela. Seriously, has he actually done anything in support of Britain? He’s a modern day Quisling.

Is his support for a possible 2nd Referendum not supporting the 48.1% of British People who voted Remain or those who don’t agree with TM’s plan?

 

[Foxholer]

I love the blame culture here, it’s everyone else’s fault, it’s not going to plan, the EU are not rolling over , the remainers are sabotaging our great idea ....

Having booked Mark Knopfler @ Albert Hall, this post reminded me of some words in this song!

 

[Fade and Die]

Is his support for a possible 2nd Referendum not supporting the 48.1% of British People who voted Remain or those who don’t agree with TM’s plan?

So the Great Democrat Corbyn has at last decided that the democratic exercise of June 23rd 2016, with the largest turnout in British history, doesn’t count after all. No , we have to do it again. What a barefaced hypocrite!!

I presume he will also be changing his slogan……. For the Few not the Many?

 

[Foxholer]

So the Great Democrat Corbyn has at last decided that the democratic exercise of June 23rd 2016, with the largest turnout in British history, doesn’t count after all. No , we have to do it again. What a barefaced hypocrite!!

I presume he will also be changing his slogan……. For the Few not the Many?

Apart from 'barefaced', an apt description!

But pretty much applicable to ANY pollitician! It's power/influence and the ability to exercise it that drives them. And that's actually even the 'good' ones!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So the Great Democrat Corbyn has at last decided that the democratic exercise of June 23rd 2016, with the largest turnout in British history, doesn’t count after all. No , we have to do it again. What a barefaced hypocrite!!

I presume he will also be changing his slogan……. For the Few not the Many?

What has he announced? The support for a 2nd Referendum is only going to happen if TM doesn’t sort the mess out.
Tories called for the initial vote, Tories have been in power since, if it goes wrong, blame Corbyn.

Did you vote for a bad deal or no deal, because I’m sure it was only yes or no on the ballot paper.

All sides of the house defeated her deal, there isn’t enough support for a No Deal, let’s blame Corbyn.

Why aren’t those(including me) who voted leave blaming the tories?

They have let us down, can you put your hand on your heart and say if Labour was in Government it would be the tories we blamed?

 

[SocketRocket]

Is his support for a possible 2nd Referendum not supporting the 48.1% of British People who voted Remain or those who don’t agree with TM’s plan?

 

[Sweep]

At least it shows that action IS being taken to mitigate consequences of 'No Deal'.

More paperwork and cost though!

Or less paperwork if you count no EC Sales Lists after March

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So time and time again MP’s change their mind, lie, etc.
If TM and the tory party had sorted a deal that suited them and the DUP, Corbyn is irrelevant.

Unless you wanted a no deal and nothing else from the start, are you seriously suggesting MP’s on all sides should just accept the deal they’ve already rejected?

Once again it’s easier to make Corbyn the bad guy than make the tories responsible for something THEY have had total control over since the beginning.

 

[Fade and Die]

What has he announced? The support for a 2nd Referendum is only going to happen if TM doesn’t sort the mess out.
Tories called for the initial vote, Tories have been in power since, if it goes wrong, blame Corbyn.

Did you vote for a bad deal or no deal, because I’m sure it was only yes or no on the ballot paper.

All sides of the house defeated her deal, there isn’t enough support for a No Deal, let’s blame Corbyn.

Why aren’t those(including me) who voted leave blaming the tories?

They have let us down, can you put your hand on your heart and say if Labour was in Government it would be the tories we blamed?

Don’t get me wrong I think the Tories are an absolute disgrace in the way they have handled Brexit, but can you not see Corbyn for what he is? The man has voted against Europe on every occasion for the last 40 years! He is just desperate to get into power, I hope the millions of labour supporters who voted leave abandon him and his momentum bully’s.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Don’t get me wrong I think the Tories are an absolute disgrace in the way they have handled Brexit, but can you not see Corbyn for what he is? The man has voted against Europe on every occasion for the last 40 years! He is just desperate to get into power, I hope the millions of labour supporters who voted leave abandon him and his momentum bully’s.

But that’s a different argument for a different thread (General Election maybe) if we end up with a 2nd Referendum etc he’ll get the blame, yet TM campaigned for Remain and somehow we’re meant to trust her with leaving.
Like I said to SR, the tories have a majority and if they had their own house in order they could of easily made him irrelevant, instead they seem to rely on him doing it to himself and they reap the rewards, but failing at both.

 

[SocketRocket]

So time and time again MP’s change their mind, lie, etc.
If TM and the tory party had sorted a deal that suited them and the DUP, Corbyn is irrelevant.

Unless you wanted a no deal and nothing else from the start, are you seriously suggesting MP’s on all sides should just accept the deal they’ve already rejected?

Once again it’s easier to make Corbyn the bad guy than make the tories responsible for something THEY have had total control over since the beginning.

"So you won't be calling for a second referendum"
Jeremy corbyn "No"

You appear so dyed in the wool Labour you wont accept any evidence against him. I'm a Tory but I am disgusted with May's handling of the Brexit negotiations.

 

[Fade and Die]

But that’s a different argument for a different thread (General Election maybe) if we end up with a 2nd Referendum etc he’ll get the blame, yet TM campaigned for Remain and somehow we’re meant to trust her with leaving.
Like I said to SR, the tories have a majority and if they had their own house in order they could of easily made him irrelevant, instead they seem to rely on him doing it to himself and they reap the rewards, but failing at both.

I don’t trust her at all, she has done everything to mess Brexit up, even calling (and nearly throwing) the general election, she had a decent majority and if she had just concentrated on Brexit she could have thrown the Irish under the bus and got on with a good deal. 😁