Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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jp5 said:
It wouldn’t make any difference as the fundamentals remain the same - May wants a hard border for Britain with the EU but not for NI. Until she or someone else decides which path to go down nothing will change.
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As does the EU, so the same applies to them.
 
Sweep said:
Except that the democratic and political processes of the United Kingdom are nothing to do with him.
Perhaps if he has had his fill of agreeing a deal he should resign. After all it’s his job. And in that regard, is he agreeing a deal? The last I heard the EU have stopped negotiating. So what has he had his fill of? He has probably had his fill of the UK not agreeing what he wants. He has probably had his fill of us not doing what he demands anymore.
And if you believe the EU is entirely guilt free in why these negotiations have been so difficult and taken so long then I have to question where you have been for the last 32 months.
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Do you believe that the UK negotiators are guilt free?
We presented our Red Lines, knowing full well that the clashed with the EU Red Lines. We gambled on European business leaders forcing their hand. That hasn't happened yet. We agreed a deal, then u turned on it. Agreed a divorce payment, then threatened to withhold it. We're not saints in this are we?
 
Old Skier said:
Not feigning anything, just quoting a fact. We had a plan, that was to leave, the EU (to the satisfaction of the majority in the HOC) are the ones demanding we do this and we do that and expect the U.K. to implement their demands. The negotiators have proven to be so weak that they keep coming back and telling us what we have to do. All we have to do is leave and put whatever processes we want into place and the EU can put what they want in place on their side of the border.
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Really? The entirety of our plan was "To leave". Brilliant. So simple, yet so maniacally brilliant.
 
Sweep said:
The plan was to leave.
It was remainers who came up with all the “what kind of Brexit” nonsense.
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Oh my sweet lord. You're all parroting it now.
That's not a plan. That's an intention.
I intend to leave work tonight. I'm not going to sit on the bloody doorstep of the building wondering what happens next. I have a plan to go home!!!!
 
bluewolf said:
Oh my sweet lord. You're all parroting it now.
That's not a plan. That's an intention.
I intend to leave work tonight. I'm not going to sit on the bloody doorstep of the building wondering what happens next. I have a plan to go home!!!!
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But what if you are not allowed to make plans until after you have left the building?
 
bluewolf said:
Do you believe that the UK negotiators are guilt free?
We presented our Red Lines, knowing full well that the clashed with the EU Red Lines. We gambled on European business leaders forcing their hand. That hasn't happened yet. We agreed a deal, then u turned on it. Agreed a divorce payment, then threatened to withhold it. We're not saints in this are we?
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No I don’t believe the UK side are guilt free. If you read my posts I make that clear. It has been a shambles from both sides, mainly because both sides have not been really negotiating what they should be. The UK side has negotiated leaving without really leaving. A fudge. The EU side has negotiated in trying to protect their project first and foremost when they should have been putting their nations and people first.
There was nothing wrong with our red lines. Making them public however was.
There is still plenty of time for EU business leaders to make a fuss, believe me. Just watch what happens when Tusk et al try to explain to them there really is no deal for their biggest customer.
We didn’t agree a deal. We agreed to take a deal back to the UK Parliament for ratification as did the EU with their Parliament. Theirs ratified. Ours didn’t. So no deal.
The divorce payment was agreed on the proviso of a deal being done under legal advice. So far there is no deal. We haven’t threatened to withhold it. If there is a deal we will pay. No deal, no pay. Nothing has changed.
 
murphthemog said:
But what if you are not allowed to make plans until after you have left the building?
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Then I don't spend all day accusing my colleagues of holding me against my will, holding back my career and generally sulking like a spoilt child. I do the necessary work, leave for the day with everything I need in place to get home in the quickest and safest way possible.
 
bluewolf said:
Oh my sweet lord. You're all parroting it now.
That's not a plan. That's an intention.
I intend to leave work tonight. I'm not going to sit on the bloody doorstep of the building wondering what happens next. I have a plan to go home!!!!
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I think you will find 17.4 million people voted to leave. The PLAN was to leave.
If you want to go home I think you should stick to your plan and go home. Don’t sit on the “bloody doorstep”. Don’t ask yourself “ what kind of going home do I want?” In the same way we said we wanted to leave so we should just have left.
It’s remainers like you and the EU who are making it hard. It’s not hard. And unless something changes, come March 29 you will see how easy it is.
 
Sweep said:
No I don’t believe the UK side are guilt free. If you read my posts I make that clear. It has been a shambles from both sides, mainly because both sides have not been really negotiating what they should be. The UK side has negotiated leaving without really leaving. A fudge. The EU side has negotiated in trying to protect their project first and foremost when they should have been putting their nations and people first.
There was nothing wrong with our red lines. Making them public however was.
There is still plenty of time for EU business leaders to make a fuss, believe me. Just watch what happens when Tusk et al try to explain to them there really is no deal for their biggest customer.
We didn’t agree a deal. We agreed to take a deal back to the UK Parliament for ratification as did the EU with their Parliament. Theirs ratified. Ours didn’t. So no deal.
The divorce payment was agreed on the proviso of a deal being done under legal advice. So far there is no deal. We haven’t threatened to withhold it. If there is a deal we will pay. No deal, no pay. Nothing has changed.
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The EU team were given a negotiating position by the 27 member states. They've stuck to it. They are representing the wishes of each State. Maybe they should have had a referendum?
And why wouldn't they protect their project? They believe in it!!
 
Sweep said:
It’s remainers like you and the EU who are making it hard. It’s not hard. And unless something changes, come March 29 you will see how easy it is.
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Here we go. It's always everyone else's fault. You bought and paid for this epic cluster. You own it. No one else. The blame lies squarely with the Leavers.
 
bluewolf said:
Then I don't spend all day accusing my colleagues of holding me against my will, holding back my career and generally sulking like a spoilt child. I do the necessary work, leave for the day with everything I need in place to get home in the quickest and safest way possible.
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We are parroting!
What on earth are you going on about?
I think you need to go home. You shouldn’t be posting on here at work anyway 😀
 
bluewolf said:
Here we go. It's always everyone else's fault. You bought and paid for this epic cluster. You own it. No one else. The blame lies squarely with the Leavers.
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You mean we own it. The nation voted for it. The whole problem is you can’t deal with the fact that your side lost. So you have tried to frustrate it. Have another go. Claim it was advisory. Stand outside Parliament waving EU flags and doing shouty things. Try and fudge it, even to the point that the only deal in town is one even remainers would rather leave than sign.
Alternatively we trigger A50 and go on time. If the EU want a deal on trade let’s do a deal on trade. Do deals with the rest of the world. Do what we want. You know, like everyone else does. Like it or not, that is what we voted for
It’s not hard, unless you have a reason for wanting to make it hard.
 
bluewolf said:
Why would the EU need a plan? We voted to leave. It's up to us to come up with the bloody plan!!
Oh, and the no negotiation clause was well known before we activated Art 50, so feigning surprise now is a bit rich.
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Because they have a clause in the union that allows members to leave. If you allow people to leave then surely you should have a plan to deal with it, especially when it leaves a big hole in your finances? Unless you are that arrogant that you believe that no one ever will and just put the clause in as a sop... :unsure:
 
Blue in Munich said:
Because they have a clause in the union that allows members to leave. If you allow people to leave then surely you should have a plan to deal with it, especially when it leaves a big hole in your finances? Unless you are that arrogant that you believe that no one ever will and just put the clause in as a sop... :unsure:
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But that isn't what's being negotiated. What they do once we leave is up to them. How they arrange their finances is up to them. The actual method for how we leave is up to us.
 
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