Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Sweep]

Can someone point the right honourable gentleman to the thread about the "Wise Words of Boris" where he has more than once decided to make good use of the English language for maximum result.. Funny he gets away with it, but Tusk wont. Acc 2 Laura, Tusk took shots at Brexiters as well as Remainers..

He said remainers aren’t organised. He didn’t mention a special place in hell for them.
Right now I am guessing remainers aren’t too chuffed with Mr Tusk either. He is doing a grand job for the leave camp.

 

[SocketRocket]

Can someone point the right honourable gentleman to the thread about the "Wise Words of Boris" where he has more than once decided to make good use of the English language for maximum result.. Funny he gets away with it, but Tusk wont. Acc 2 Laura, Tusk took shots at Brexiters as well as Remainers..

Can you not see the difference between a back bench MP spouting off and and someone in Tusks role. OK MEPs may also spout off in the EU Parliament but thats to be expected, Tusk should be a world player and above this nonsence. Its not the first time either.
The Brits dont like being spoken to in this manner, irrespective of what some fence sitters may say I think he may have turned some Remainers into Leavers by it.

 

[bluewolf]

Boris is not one of the negotiators. He has the freedom/luxury of a backseat observer.

Nonsense. He is the former Foreign Secretary and present PM hopeful. He's a current lead Brexiteer and Political columnist. His words carry just as much weight as Tusk's. As do Rees-Moggs and David Davis'. Throw Raab, who's uneducated ramblings regarding Ports and the GFA have demeaned us all in the mix as well
You're clutching at straws and feigning offence because it suits your argument.

We've been just as bad, if not worse.

Anyway, as I said before, I suspect this "outburst" tells us exactly what likelihood there is if a deal. None. The Tories have been doing nothing but delaying for almost 2 years now.

Anyway, they could always shut him right up by telling us what their plan is, couldn't they?

Quick edit: by "you're" I mean all staunch Brexit supporters. Not you personally 👍

 

[oxymoron]

LOL, you quoted my post! So it was aimed specifically at me. And you haven't touched a nerve at all, but if you aim a comment at me, I'm likely to respond.

whether you agree with his comment or not, he has every right to make it. To decide that he is somehow "not very constructive" whilst ignoring every other comment by Uk based commentators appears to be a touch one sided. If we were to compile all the comments made by protagonists on both sides and critique them all then that would be better. But that isn't happening.. Horrible statements by people like Mark Francois and Daniel Kawazinski appear to go unnoticed by most on here..

Oh, and I'm desperate for it to be over as well. This is a dark time for Britain and I suspect that history will not be kind to us.. Any of us..

(sorry if this is a little disjointed. I'm currently attempting to work out a Shipping itinerary for a product currently in production, that is due to leave in March, pass through 2 European Ports before finally heading to the USA in April. My head is in bits!!! )

I quoted your post because it had the text in i wanted to highlight , so sorry i should have put a disclaimer in that i was not picking at you .

And yes he does have every right to make any comment he likes but there is a time and a place for everything and this was neither the time or the place .The key player in this ,should all take a step back and calm down a bit . To be brutally honest i have not read or indeed seen any comments by the other 2 you mention but if as you say they are inflammatory then they should also be treated the same as Tusk's comment .

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Goodness me I did not realise how many poor wee sensitive souls there were on the Leave side.
A couple of 'home truths' and they run away calling for nanny.

A few weeks to go and we still do not have a clue what the Leavers and Labour plan is.

 

[MegaSteve]

When Donald makes the travel arrangements, to the furnaces of hell, for the architects of Brexit... There ought be priority seats for Messrs Major, Blair and Cameron...

 

[bluewolf]

When Donald makes the travel arrangements, to the furnaces of hell, for the architects of Brexit... There ought be priority seats for Messrs Major, Blair and Cameron...

I suspect that it's going to need a 2nd carriage. I'd throw Corbyn and (most definitely) Milne in there as well.
Seumas Milne is quite possibly the most guilty party out there. A horrible little champagne socialist that is playing fast and loose with other people's lives 😤😤

 

[Hacker Khan]

There's a lot of

going on by some leavers.

possibly not the most constructive thing to say. But on the other hand I agree with every word including the bit he said about those wanting to stay having no political force or effective leadership. He's effectively saying we have made a right balls up of the whole thing on both sides which I can't argue with. I just expect he has had his fill of agreeing a deal, then the UK coming back and saying what they don't want but not being able to give any clear idea what they do want and especially how they will achieve it.

 

[MegaSteve]

I suspect that it's going to need a 2nd carriage. I'd throw Corbyn and (most definitely) Milne in there as well.
Seumas Milne is quite possibly the most guilty party out there. A horrible little champagne socialist that is playing fast and loose with other people's lives 😤😤

Then we ought also include the business folk who have used EU policies to disadvantage British workers...

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Today is going to be a very peculiar day. Two groups of people are supposed to sit down and try to gain some movement on an issue. One party have said they will not move and are throwing insults out and inflamming the situation. The other side are saying they will not move and are sending the same people who previously agreed and signed off on a deal, 'you know the deal we agreed upon, errrmmm, we've changed our minds'

Credibility on all sides is shot. It wont happen but it wouldn't half help if both sides sent new people with no baggage.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Today is going to be a very peculiar day. Two groups of people are supposed to sit down and try to gain some movement on an issue. One party have said they will not move and are throwing insults out and inflamming the situation. The other side are saying they will not move and are sending the same people who previously agreed and signed off on a deal, 'you know the deal we agreed upon, errrmmm, we've changed our minds'

Credibility on all sides is shot. It wont happen but it wouldn't half help if both sides sent new people with no baggage.

I still think they will do some kind of deal which will mostly consist of some clever wording that involves kicking the backstop can sufficiently down the road to appease both the EU and Parliament. But we'll be in much the same position of not agreeing a way forwards 60 odd days before the transition period runs out.

 

[bluewolf]

Then we ought also include the business folk who have used EU policies to disadvantage British workers...

Can we include Media Barons and Editors who have spent 40 years lying to us about the negatives of the EU and ignoring the positives? Oh, and Ant Macpartlin. Just because.

 

[Sweep]

Goodness me I did not realise how many poor wee sensitive souls there were on the Leave side.
A couple of 'home truths' and they run away calling for nanny.

A few weeks to go and we still do not have a clue what the Leavers and Labour plan is.

That’s because you believe we all think like you. We don’t get offended on behalf of others like you do. Tusk did not deride us as leavers. He derided the politicians who advocated leave for not having a plan, even though they did and even though he is well aware the EU have thwarted negotiations to protect their own project.
We are not offended. We are appalled by the lack of professionalism shown by him and others in the EU who have failed to distance themselves from his ludicrous insult. We are appalled at his sense of timing. We are amazed that he really thinks this is the behaviour expected of a “President”. We find it incredulous that he thinks this is the best way to govern for the people of the EU.
If you think any of these points are wrong, now might be the time to say so, or are we to believe that you just support any old bs that comes out of the EU? Are you that far gone?
These “home truths” are not truths at all. There is no special place in hell. It’s drivel. And no-one is crying for nanny, so that’s more drivel.
I do agree with you on a plan. May spent far too long on her deal that was never going to pass and this is the result. However, I also recognise that any deal has more than one side and the EU have not helped in this taking so long either.

 

[jp5]

Credibility on all sides is shot. It wont happen but it wouldn't half help if both sides sent new people with no baggage.

It wouldn’t make any difference as the fundamentals remain the same - May wants a hard border for Britain with the EU but not for NI. Until she or someone else decides which path to go down nothing will change.

 

[Old Skier]

Funny how remainers comment on the no plan when in reality it appears that the EU was that arrogant they never thought anyone would dare to leave so never had a plan to deal with it.

I thought our plan was to leave the EU, as soon as we announced that we should have had the right to start planning and negotiating with the rest of the world what would happen on the day after we left but no, the EU does not allow a leaver to negotiate with any country until they have actually left.

 

[bluewolf]

That’s because you believe we all think like you. We don’t get offended on behalf of others like you do. Tusk did not deride us as leavers. He derided the politicians who advocated leave for not having a plan, even though they did and even though he is well aware the EU have thwarted negotiations to protect their own project.
We are not offended. We are appalled by the lack of professionalism shown by him and others in the EU who have failed to distance themselves from his ludicrous insult. We are appalled at his sense of timing. We are amazed that he really thinks this is the behaviour expected of a “President”. We find it incredulous that he thinks this is the best way to govern for the people of the EU.
If you think any of these points are wrong, now might be the time to say so, or are we to believe that you just support any old bs that comes out of the EU? Are you that far gone?
These “home truths” are not truths at all. There is no special place in hell. It’s drivel. And no-one is crying for nanny, so that’s more drivel.
I do agree with you on a plan. May spent far too long on her deal that was never going to pass and this is the result. However, I also recognise that any deal has more than one side and the EU have not helped in this taking so long either.

What was the plan? If they could just let someone know quite soon that would help, because they've been doing a spot on impersonation of people without a coherent thought for 2 years now....

 

[bluewolf]

Funny how remainers comment on the no plan when in reality it appears that the EU was that arrogant they never thought anyone would dare to leave so never had a plan to deal with it.

I thought our plan was to leave the EU, as soon as we announced that we should have had the right to start planning and negotiating with the rest of the world what would happen on the day after we left but no, the EU does not allow a leaver to negotiate with any country until they have actually left.

Why would the EU need a plan? We voted to leave. It's up to us to come up with the bloody plan!!
Oh, and the no negotiation clause was well known before we activated Art 50, so feigning surprise now is a bit rich.

 

[Sweep]

There's a lot of

going on by some leavers.

possibly not the most constructive thing to say. But on the other hand I agree with every word including the bit he said about those wanting to stay having no political force or effective leadership. He's effectively saying we have made a right balls up of the whole thing on both sides which I can't argue with. I just expect he has had his fill of agreeing a deal, then the UK coming back and saying what they don't want but not being able to give any clear idea what they do want and especially how they will achieve it.

Except that the democratic and political processes of the United Kingdom are nothing to do with him.
Perhaps if he has had his fill of agreeing a deal he should resign. After all it’s his job. And in that regard, is he agreeing a deal? The last I heard the EU have stopped negotiating. So what has he had his fill of? He has probably had his fill of the UK not agreeing what he wants. He has probably had his fill of us not doing what he demands anymore.
And if you believe the EU is entirely guilt free in why these negotiations have been so difficult and taken so long then I have to question where you have been for the last 32 months.

 

[Foxholer]

'...I wish you'd stop giving out orders....

Orders? Simply a request! And slightly less 'orders-like' than yours (imo)!

...I've worked with the EU at senior levels so there's no 'continual fallacy' in my understanding of its governance structure....

Were you elected to your position, or were you appointed?

Btw. I'm not a fan of any of the 'main players' in the EU 'team'! Nor of Selmayr, whose appointments have, indeed, been 'suspect'!

 

[Old Skier]

Why would the EU need a plan? We voted to leave. It's up to us to come up with the bloody plan!!
Oh, and the no negotiation clause was well known before we activated Art 50, so feigning surprise now is a bit rich.

Not feigning anything, just quoting a fact. We had a plan, that was to leave, the EU (to the satisfaction of the majority in the HOC) are the ones demanding we do this and we do that and expect the U.K. to implement their demands. The negotiators have proven to be so weak that they keep coming back and telling us what we have to do. All we have to do is leave and put whatever processes we want into place and the EU can put what they want in place on their side of the border.