Old Skier
Tour Winner
Grow up, your continually telling others to, what grudge, I like you just have opinions although you try to make it that only your opinions are worth anything.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Grow up, your continually telling others to, what grudge, I like you just have opinions although you try to make it that only your opinions are worth anything.
Sorry, Remain! Slip of the pencil.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I think you are slightly overestimating the ability of politicians to think they are in control of this whole process. I'd be more open to the idea that they are mostly making it up as they go along based on ongoing events.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Interesting that Article 50 (2) contains the phrase "... the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union."
so they are required to " conclude" a deal but the final 'deal' concluded must take account of the "future relationship". I'd interpret that to suggest Barnier may have wrongly chosen to delay the 'future' relationship which, I'd say, means the WA is only a part of the agreement the EU needs to include a future plan for it to be a complete deal. It must therefore be possible to keep negotiating until the future bit is also tied down !!!
so they are required to " conclude" a deal but the final 'deal' concluded must take account of the "future relationship". I'd interpret that to suggest Barnier may have wrongly chosen to delay the 'future' relationship which, I'd say, means the WA is only a part of the agreement the EU needs to include a future plan for it to be a complete deal. It must therefore be possible to keep negotiating until the future bit is also tied down !!!
Foxholer
Blackballed
So much wrong with the above, but not worth the, inevitable, hassle!
I agree with the bold bit. The italicised bit can just as easily apply to you - or many/any others. But ALL are really simply opinions so 'biased' from our own experience/understanding/circumstances! None are really actually worth anything (more or less than anyone else's) except to ourselves!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Clutching at straws? Certainly arguable, but I don't believe very convincingly!
Article 50(3) covers failure to do a deal.
'The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.'
And the presence of that clause indicates that 'conclude' doesn't mean a WA has to be agreed!
And you missed the, important, word 'framework'! That framework could simply be 'subject to future negotiation'! I'm pretty sure that (or equivalent) will be in the proposed agreement somewhere.
drdel
Tour Rookie
Its a very cold day and I've not yet go out on the course so I'm on here wasting a bit of time for amusement. Certainly not clutching at any straws - t'was only a somewhat idle thought as befits an online Forum.
You do seem to like to have dig and start a lot of your posts with a put-down of members' opinions before then making your pronouncement from a position (IYO) of superior intellect !!!
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Sorted
drdel
Tour Rookie
Foxholer
Blackballed
Where was the 'dig'? Likewise, where was the put-down - as opposed to correction/contrary opinion? And surely, if I disagree (which, as far as I know is actually allowed - in spite of the impression Old Skier gives!) then I'm duty bound to back it up with reasons/reasoning! No 'superior intellect' involved, though perhaps 'more complete analysis'. I believe I'm actually prepared to be corrected or convinced of a view contrary to my 'existing' one rather more than most - certainly more-so than many of the hard-core 'contributors' in this thread!
Btw. IMO, I'd certainly 'question your intellect' about getting out on the course today - I think you'd be mad to do so, at least if the conditions are anything like they are in Surrey!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Yes, sorry for the typo but the rest of the comment remains.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Oh Ah! Me Old HansomI knew I could rely on a fellow Devonian
Mudball
Assistant Pro
If you are a Brexiteer or BeLeaver and a Liverpool fan you may want to look away..
Jurgen Klopp speaking out on Brexit: essentially denouncing Leave campaign lies & misinformation, and arguing the Remain campaign was limp, so it was not a proper democratic process because people did not have full, genuine information.
Jurgen Klopp speaking out on Brexit: essentially denouncing Leave campaign lies & misinformation, and arguing the Remain campaign was limp, so it was not a proper democratic process because people did not have full, genuine information.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
So why has TM’s deal become acceptable bar the back stop ?
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
That's ok with the new immigration laws coming in I'll have a word with my colleagues in the Home Office and get the git sent back to Germany!!!! 😉
Hopefully that'll be the end of Liverpool as a force for a bit and it'll put an end to all the smugness from Liverpoolphil, Liverbirdie and Stu!!! 😂😂😂
IanM
Journeyman Pro
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Good old Kloppy! ........ assume he is "yet another" German not wanting to be left holding the baby as the EU's insolvency bites.... or maybe he has shares in BMW who are about to lose signifcant revenue, unless stuff changes...
chrisd
Major Champion
I'm as much interested in Klopps opinions as I am SILH's. I'll not bother to watch
No doubt you’ve got another set of clubs to choose instead!
drdel
Tour Rookie
When Raab was involved the £39bn (or whatever the number is today) was part of the WA settlement and necessary step towards paving the way for the future.
Noises coming from Brussels now suggests that if there is not an agreement by end of March and the fee is not paid by mid-April they'll sue us. So while 'future planning then stops (in theory) with the EU says 'no' renegotiating and so we leave without a deal i.e. no WA yet they propose relying on part of it.
Noises coming from Brussels now suggests that if there is not an agreement by end of March and the fee is not paid by mid-April they'll sue us. So while 'future planning then stops (in theory) with the EU says 'no' renegotiating and so we leave without a deal i.e. no WA yet they propose relying on part of it.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
You think that she really wants to be responsible for a deal that has been said to be worse than No Deal? I'd actually take Remain over what I understand her pig's ear offers us.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ngle-market-customs-union-government-brussels
https://www.forbes.com/sites/france...it-deal-is-terrible-for-the-u-k/#56de06b27bd7
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