Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Blue in Munich]

...........and "Leavers" are predominately old white folk....probably not are the most suceptable sector to on line influence? Apologies if the earlier reply seemed brusque...

..and yes, I have worked in advertising...

Would that be old white folk like me who aren't on Twitter or Facebook...?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So you believe that the folk in England who voted for Brexit were knowingly aware of the problems that it would bring to NI
Naw..it would not have been anywhere near their radar.

You are just dribbling on now - you made a statement that NI and Scotland are being forced out of the UK - I would like you to actually justify that statement or for once admit it is false

A vote was taken to leave the EU - no vote has been taken to break up the UK. The UK as one is leaving the EU - if Scotland or NI want to leave the UK then they can have a vote on it and then as was said last time it’s a “once in a generation” vote.

...and I could suguest that the barrage of other stuff I mentioned would have an equal or greater influence... (BBC in particular) When you consider the relative cost of advertising across those other media Remain had it pretty good! (much better than Leave)

I voted Leave and I'm 55! Does that count as old? (not on a golf site! )

What about the “bias” from certain red top media publications - I firmly believe that they hold quite a significant influence on certain people and wasn’t one or two of them heavily on the side of leave ?

Both sides have accused the BBC of being biased ?! How do they manage to be bias for both sides ?

 

[IanM]

SO you must also agree that the BBC bias during the Scottish Independence vote was also well out of order.
Or is that when bias is OK.

Of course I agreee.... if that was their position. (and I dont actually know their position as I dont get BBC Scotland)

A state broadcaster funded by a compulsory license must be impartial...... ours is not

Eg If you hate Fox News/Sky News, you dont have to buy it. No such choice with the BBC.

 

[IanM]

Both sides accuse the BBC of bias in brexit. https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...dcasting-corporation-how-remainers-turned-bbc https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/11/bbc-andrew-neil-media-politics https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...Radio-5-Live-Emma-Barnett-show-Barry-Gardiner https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2019/01/10/kawczynski-hits-out-at-bbc-brexit-bias/

And I can pretty much guarantee you will agree with 2 of those links and disagree vehemently with the other 2.

...and if the BBC stopped taking Cash from the EU, I'd have some sympathy

 

[MegaSteve]

Not that it was in any doubt... But, in case my thoughts needed any reinforcing... Seeing 'saint' Bob bellowing insults at regular working folk was plenty for me... Or, just in case that wasn't sufficient... Lib/dems using "lazy British workers" as justification for their stance...

Meanwhile, in the news, Halifax report a small rise in house prices... No sign of the promised crash following a vote to exit...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You don't have to read everything on facebook, or even use facebook but we all have a letterbox. I suspect in the case of that particular booklet most people will have read it, especially after the amount of airtime put into promoting it.

...that'll be the booklet that the Leave campaign told voters to ignore as all the warnings, downsides and inevitabilities in it were all just one Great Big Project Fear. Yes - thought that that was the one.

I note that, in respect of leaving the EU, the booklet actually says 'The Government judges it could result in 10 years or more of uncertainty as the UK unpicks our relationship with the EU and renegotiates new arrangements with the EU and over 50 other countries around the world. Some argue that we could strike a good deal quickly with the EU because they want to keep access to our market. But the Government’s judgement is that it would be much harder than that. A more limited trade deal with the EU would give the UK less access to the Single Market than we have now'

So when we look back at what the official government position on Brexit was the above indicates that the expectation was clearly set out that the UK would negotiate a deal with the EU that gave access to the Single Market. And I doubt we will get that under No Deal

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry but my Brexit vote was all about leaving Europe - said nothing about Scotland and NI leaving the UK ? I can’t remember seeing that option on the ballot sheet.

I do remember a recent vote for Scotland to leave the UK - I recall the vote result was to stay in the UK , NI have not had a vote - so your comment was complete nonsense and false as per normal

...and one of the main planks for No in the Scottish Referendum was that only by Scotland staying in the UK could membership of the EU be guaranteed.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No need to apologise. I took it in the way it was meant

I thought that we couldn't say that Leavers were predominantly old white folk?

Also, if I use my "old white folk" parents as an example, they are most definitely the most susceptible to online advertising. I swear they'd believe the sky was green if an article on Facebook claimed it..

...and my 86 yr old M-i-L was going to vote to Leave because her 85+ yr old friends Mrs Turner and Mrs Witham were voting that way - because the Daily Mail told them to...sad but true...no need for Facebook and other Social Media peddling lies, scare stories, fears and misinformation for that group.

In the end my M-i-L didn't vote as her 21yrs old and 24yrs old grandchidren asked her not to vote to Leave.

 

[NWJocko]

...and one of the main planks for No in the Scottish Referendum was that only by Scotland staying in the UK could membership of the EU be guaranteed.

It is embarrassing that you and Doon keep peddling this line.

At the point of the Indy ref, before Brexit was even considered an option, that was the only way to guarantee membership of the EU.

Please, please stop embarrassing yourself (and reinforcing the chip on shoulder stereotype of us Scots) by using this

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It is embarrassing that you and Doon keep peddling this line.

At the point of the Indy ref, before Brexit was even considered an option, that was the only way to guarantee membership of the EU.

Please, please stop embarrassing yourself (and reinforcing the chip on shoulder stereotype of us Scots) by using this

Just saying that the circumstances - as you agree - have changed...as have things since 23rd June 2016.

And I'll thank you - I am not embarrassing myself - I'll be the judge of that - thank you.

 

[chrisd]

Just saying that the circumstances - as you agree - have changed...as have things since 23rd June 2016.

And I'll thank you - I am not embarrassing myself - I'll be the judge of that - thank you.

To be fair, I think we are all in a position to judge given the number of posts you have made in this thread

 

[USER1999]

So 3 days after the vote on TMs deal is thrown out, what new proposal do the MPs think is going to be on the table. The EU have said that is the deal. No deal is apparently not acceptable. Norway have said no to a Norway style deal. Canada +++ is not available. Putting off art 50 is procrastinating, as nothing can change. A new referendum would cause chaos, and a referendum on what? Recalling art 50, and then wait for what? Remain, as leaving appears a bit difficult, but ignores the original referendum result.

It appears to me that Parliament are just making this even messier. May be having them vote on this has not been the best idea afterall.

 

[bluewolf]

All they've done is make No Deal even more likely. They didn't even realise what they were voting for. They're all idiots.

 

[Hacker Khan]

So 3 days after the vote on TMs deal is thrown out, what new proposal do the MPs think is going to be on the table. The EU have said that is the deal. No deal is apparently not acceptable. Norway have said no to a Norway style deal. Canada +++ is not available. Putting off art 50 is procrastinating, as nothing can change. A new referendum would cause chaos, and a referendum on what? Recalling art 50, and then wait for what? Remain, as leaving appears a bit difficult, but ignores the original referendum result.

It appears to me that Parliament are just making this even messier. May be having them vote on this has not been the best idea afterall.

My money is on a postponement of article 50, a general election and then we'll try again with hopefully a new lot of politicians running it. As for who that will be then chuff knows.

 

[bluewolf]

Genuine question to the educated few on here.
How are British Farmers going to operate successfully after a No Deal Brexit?

They'll have no EU subsidies. They'll have a huge new competitor on their doorstep. They won't be able to compete financially due to the harsher growing conditions in the U.K.

All I can foresee is a spiralling cycle of government subsidies allowing them to compete, or a huge number going to the wall as they will never be able to compete.

I trust there's someone on here who can show me how this will be solved without the need to significantly increase food prices.

 

[ColchesterFC]

All they've done is make No Deal even more likely. They didn't even realise what they were voting for. They're all idiots.

MPs or Leave voters?

 

[bluewolf]

MPs or Leave voters?

From my viewpoint, everyone's just a different degree of idiot. 😂

 

[drdel]

So 3 days after the vote on TMs deal is thrown out, what new proposal do the MPs think is going to be on the table. The EU have said that is the deal. No deal is apparently not acceptable. Norway have said no to a Norway style deal. Canada +++ is not available. Putting off art 50 is procrastinating, as nothing can change. A new referendum would cause chaos, and a referendum on what? Recalling art 50, and then wait for what? Remain, as leaving appears a bit difficult, but ignores the original referendum result.

It appears to me that Parliament are just making this even messier. May be having them vote on this has not been the best idea afterall.

Yes but our 'man of the people' Mr Corbyn has hopes of pushing for a general election that will then allow him to renegotiate a 'deal' (despite EU saying no) and get it through HoC in 70odd days, before March 29th.

 

[drdel]

PS The Scottish independence vote was well over 4 years ago now...hardly recent when they say a week in politics is a long time.
A lot has happened in 4 years.

In the spirit of fairness and democratic process, when the 'break-up' of the UK comes about as you wish in order for Scotland to gain its independence, is there any chance we little Englanders can have a vote this time?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Genuine question to the educated few on here.
How are British Farmers going to operate successfully after a No Deal Brexit?

They'll have no EU subsidies. They'll have a huge new competitor on their doorstep. They won't be able to compete financially due to the harsher growing conditions in the U.K.

All I can foresee is a spiralling cycle of government subsidies allowing them to compete, or a huge number going to the wall as they will never be able to compete.

I trust there's someone on here who can show me how this will be solved without the need to significantly increase food prices.

The govt has said they will match subsidies for a period. After that, can't remember how long, they will alter how subsidies are handed out so that they work better. This will include maintenance of the countryside, environmental concerns as well as for food production.

The competitor on the doorstep is the same one as now, no difference there.

New Zealand scrapped it's farming subsidies some years ago. The farming sector there is stronger for it. I don't know if we can go that far but hopefully we will wean the sector off them over time.