Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[SocketRocket]

I dislike the way Anna Sourbry was tuselled at close quarters, the surrounding Police should have kept control. Its a matter of weighing up what is free speech and where that crosses the line of reasonable behaviour.

In saying this I don't hold much respect for her, she represents a constituency that voted 53% Leave in the referendum and although she is under no compulsion to vote in accordance with their will she should be more considerate of their view rather than being in the vanguard of the Remain camp.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...958/ministers-discuss-prospect-break-uk-event

Goodness me the penny has finally dropped.
Is this what Brexit supporters voted for?

 

[Hacker Khan]

I dislike the way Anna Sourbry was tuselled at close quarters, the surrounding Police should have kept control. Its a matter of weighing up what is free speech and where that crosses the line of reasonable behaviour.

In saying this I don't hold much respect for her, she represents a constituency that voted 53% Leave in the referendum and although she is under no compulsion to vote in accordance with their will she should be more considerate of their view rather than being in the vanguard of the Remain camp.

As a resident of her constituency I can shed a bit of light on that. She was very clear at the last election on her feelings towards Brexit and was elected by a narrow margin over the Labour candidate. The area has flip flopped a bit between Labour and the Conservatives over the years but she has been elected at the last 3 elections I think. The area is relatively diverse and you will find large pockets of leave supporters and also pockets of remainers, it is not one homogeneous area. This is reflected in the Brexit referendum where you got 55% (not 53 as originally stated) voting for leave. Which as we well know, is a victory but is not a massive mandate.

Whilst there will always be a debate on whether an MP should follow their very clear and stated principles that got them elected or change those views based on the Brexit vote, one could argue that she has always been very consistent. And to change that would make her look like a complete fraud IMHO. I have never voted for her and probably never will, but expecting her change her views on a 55%-45% margin is not something I agree with. And if she is so out of touch with her constituents then I expect she will go in the next general election which will occur around March time.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

As a resident of her constituency I can shed a bit of light on that. She was very clear at the last election on her feelings towards Brexit and was elected by a narrow margin over the Labour candidate. The area has flip flopped a bit between Labour and the Conservatives over the years but she has been elected at the last 3 elections I think. The area is relatively diverse and you will find large pockets of leave supporters and also pockets of remainers, it is not one homogeneous area. This is reflected in the Brexit referendum where you got 55% (not 53 as originally stated) voting for leave. Which as we well know, is a victory but is not a massive mandate.

Whilst there will always be a debate on whether an MP should follow their very clear and stated principles that got them elected or change those views based on the Brexit vote, one could argue that she has always been very consistent. And to change that would make her look like a complete fraud IMHO. I have never voted for her and probably never will, but expecting her change her views on a 55%-45% margin is not something I agree with. And if she is so out of touch with her constituents then I expect she will go in the next general election which will occur around March time.

I agree, looks like the Government will be hamstrung by parliament after the no deal Brexit and a general election will take place in the early spring.
Not great news for Scots who want independence but at least we will see a higher SNP presence at Westminster with a hung parliament.
Interesting times ahead,.

 

[SocketRocket]

As a resident of her constituency I can shed a bit of light on that. She was very clear at the last election on her feelings towards Brexit and was elected by a narrow margin over the Labour candidate. The area has flip flopped a bit between Labour and the Conservatives over the years but she has been elected at the last 3 elections I think. The area is relatively diverse and you will find large pockets of leave supporters and also pockets of remainers, it is not one homogeneous area. This is reflected in the Brexit referendum where you got 55% (not 53 as originally stated) voting for leave. Which as we well know, is a victory but is not a massive mandate.

Whilst there will always be a debate on whether an MP should follow their very clear and stated principles that got them elected or change those views based on the Brexit vote, one could argue that she has always been very consistent. And to change that would make her look like a complete fraud IMHO. I have never voted for her and probably never will, but expecting her change her views on a 55%-45% margin is not something I agree with. And if she is so out of touch with her constituents then I expect she will go in the next general election which will occur around March time.

I think you agreed with me?

 

[SocketRocket]

I agree, looks like the Government will be hamstrung by parliament after the no deal Brexit and a general election will take place in the early spring.
Not great news for Scots who want independence but at least we will see a higher SNP presence at Westminster with a hung parliament.
Interesting times ahead,.

No they don't, they voted against it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Anyone watch 'The Uncivil War' ?
I found it interesting, especially the Cummings part.
Basically Leave won by targeting individuals on line [sometimes illegally] with advertising slogans.
Interesting also that Cummings now regrets what he did. says it was rubbish, and leaving the EU was a mistake.

 

[SocketRocket]

Anyone watch 'The Uncivil War' ?
I found it interesting, especially the Cummings part.
Basically Leave won by targeting individuals on line [sometimes illegally] with advertising slogans.
Interesting also that Cummings now regrets what he did. says it was rubbish, and leaving the EU was a mistake.

They didn't get my vote by targeting me online, I wonder how many people voted leave due to being targeted this way, I suspect very few if any. This is another attempt to suggest the referendum was unfair due to leave voters being too dense to understand what they were voting for.

 

[ColchesterFC]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...958/ministers-discuss-prospect-break-uk-event

Goodness me the penny has finally dropped.
Is this what Brexit supporters voted for?

Isn't it a teensy bit hypocritical for someone who actively, and very vocally, supports breaking up the UK to be critical of Brexit voters because it might lead to the break up of the UK?

 

[IanM]

Anyone watch 'The Uncivil War' ?
I found it interesting, especially the Cummings part.
Basically Leave won by targeting individuals on line [sometimes illegally] with advertising slogans.
Interesting also that Cummings now regrets what he did. says it was rubbish, and leaving the EU was a mistake.

No, leave won cos more folk wanted to Leave! Despite the Govt spending millions telliing you to vote Remain, despite the BBC taking cash from the EU "in grants" and Mr Soros backing it with goodness knows what................... and the ongoing campaign, and slanted TV progs likes this

 

[Hacker Khan]

They didn't get my vote by targeting me online, I wonder how many people voted leave due to being targeted this way, I suspect very few if any. This is another attempt to suggest the referendum was unfair due to leave voters being too dense to understand what they were voting for.

It is impossible to quantify the impact of the targeted on line messaging, adds or bots on Twitter, both in Brexit and the US elections. No one will admit to voting due to being persuaded by adds or messages and everyone will claim that they have voted using a careful and considered analysis of the facts. But in reality it does not work like that. It is not a case as you claim of people being 'too dense' as everyone is impacted in some way by advertising, IQ is not a way of indicating how susceptible people are, there are plenty of people with high IQs who like their views being reinforced in their echo chamber or respond to advertising by say Titliest or Callaway I expect.

The only unfairness would come if those actions were illegal and whilst there were overspending issues, plus the murky world of Cambridge Analytica, the concept of sending out targeted messages is not illegal. But as I have said before, whilst I expect some of it is just scaremongering, the increasingly sophisticated use of this type of persuasion by untraceable sources to me is the greatest threat to democracy we have at the moment. This is an example. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-facebook-ads-mainstream-chequers-89up-dcms The actual message they are getting across is not relevant, but the process to me is very worrying.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Isn't it a teensy bit hypocritical for someone who actively, and very vocally, supports breaking up the UK to be critical of Brexit voters because it might lead to the break up of the UK?

Or looking at it another way....'Staunch' Unionists voting to take back control by dragging NI and Scotland out of the EU and forcing them out of the UK.

 

[IanM]

In a campaign, which would you prefer to use?

- On line messaging a small % of the electoratorate

or

- An offical Government booklet telling you how to vote
- The state broadcaster's daily output
- Having 3 times the budget of the other side

....hmmm, I wonder, and which one will they make a TV programme about ? Almost funny

 

[SocketRocket]

In a campaign, which would you prefer to use?

- On line messaging a small % of the electoratorate

or

- An offical Government booklet telling you how to vote
- The state broadcaster's daily output
- Having 3 times the budget of the other side

....hmmm, I wonder, and which one will they make a TV programme about ? Almost funny

How about a film "On the Buses Goes Brexit"
Come on Boris, Get this Bus Aaat!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In a campaign, which would you prefer to use?

- On line messaging a small % of the electoratorate

or

- An offical Government booklet telling you how to vote
- The state broadcaster's daily output
- Having 3 times the budget of the other side

....hmmm, I wonder, and which one will they make a TV programme about ? Almost funny

The TV programme acting was good though...….very uncanny similarities of those involved, especially Banks, Carswell and Farage.

 

[SocketRocket]

The TV programme acting was good though...….very uncanny similarities of those involved, especially Banks, Carswell and Farage.

Did Corbyn sound like a Dalek

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Or looking at it another way....'Staunch' Unionists voting to take back control by dragging NI and Scotland out of the EU and forcing them out of the UK.

Did I miss that vote were NI and Scotland were forced out of the UK ?

Doubt I will get an answer

So can anyone explain this vote yesterday? Radio were saying it means that a “no deal” is increasingly unlikely ?

 

[bluewolf]

In a campaign, which would you prefer to use?

- On line messaging a small % of the electoratorate

or

- An offical Government booklet telling you how to vote
- The state broadcaster's daily output
- Having 3 times the budget of the other side

....hmmm, I wonder, and which one will they make a TV programme about ? Almost funny

Not wanting to disagree, but the 3 items you listed for the Remain side were blunt and easily avoidable. The online targeted adverts, Allegedly using illegally harvested data is much more incisive and serves to reinforce viewpoints. As much as I hate it, there's no doubting its efficacy in areas such as this.

 

[bluewolf]

Did I miss that vote were NI and Scotland were forced out of the UK ?

Doubt I will get an answer

So can anyone explain this vote yesterday? Radio were saying it means that a “no deal” is increasingly unlikely ?

As far as I can see, the chances of a No Deal are just as likely as before, we just can't talk about it or prepare for it..

You can't diminish the chances of the default fall back position. It's what will happen once the time runs out and either a deal has not been agreed or Article 50 has not been revoked/delayed..

 

[SocketRocket]

Not wanting to disagree, but the 3 items you listed for the Remain side were blunt and easily avoidable. The online targeted adverts, Allegedly using illegally harvested data is much more incisive and serves to reinforce viewpoints. As much as I hate it, there's no doubting its efficacy in areas such as this.

One of them was posted through every letterbox in the land, not very avoidable.