Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Dando]

But were they telling lies or were they just exaggerating?

Leavers lie and remainers exaggerate!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Good news, all is not yet lost.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...court-if-brexit-can-be-reversed-a3994556.html

Good news for who?

 

[Fade and Die]

Good news for who?

The noisy minority.

 

[Hobbit]

Is that the noisy minority who lost the vote or the noisy minority now?

 

[bluewolf]

Is that the noisy minority who lost the vote or the noisy minority now?

You little devil you...... 😂

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If you have a spare 10 minutes I just came across this speech and found some parts of it to be quite pertinent

Sadly doing little more than perpetuating the myth that many Leave voters choose to hold about what Remain voters think of Leave voters. Simply fits the Leave anti-Remoaner agenda - 'look what these Remoaners think of us - well they can just suck it up - we won'

And what about the rest of it - the rest that isn't pertinent?

 

[Hobbit]

Sadly doing little more than perpetuating the myth that many Leave voters choose to hold about what Remain voters think of Leave voters. Simply fits the Leave anti-Remoaner agenda - 'look what these Remoaners think of us - well they can just suck it up - we won'

And what about the rest of it - the rest that isn't pertinent?

If you read some of your early posts, when it was still very raw to you, a lot of what he says early in the vid is what you were reporting/saying about Leavers. It also reflects what the media were saying. I can understand why he says what he does. He, and other Leavers, have taken a huge amount of flak. And, dare I say, that's exactly why you get the flak that you do.

You'd do well to look back at some of your early posts.

 

[SocketRocket]

You do know that Patrick Minford - advocate and champion of a No Deal - tells us that...

Minford’s policy recommendation is that following a vote for Brexit, the UK should not bother striking new trade deals but instead unilaterally abolish all its import tariffs (let’s call this policy ‘Britain Alone’). The UK would simply pay the tariffs imposed by other countries on UK exports. This is usually the worst-case scenario that other economists have examined.

This would be a pretty hard sell to UK citizens. Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality. But although he is relaxed about these outcomes, we suspect that voters in Port Talbot and elsewhere in Britain wouldn’t be so impressed.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...onomists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/

Or is that just Minford engaging in Project Fear...

I didnt mention Patrick Minford, did I? No doubt you and I could spend all our day quoting what this and that person has said but whats the point. Read my post and then make a level headed response to it, that would be much better than all this prevarication.

 

[SocketRocket]

Er..That - falling back to WTO Trading arrangements and the minimum set of ties to the EU - i's what (I believe) everybody means by 'No Deal'! Of course there's still the 'divorce settlement' of committed funding of agreed projects, salaries/pensions and likely a few other items to negotiate. But Article 50 certainly allows for a 'No Deal' situation!

People exaggerate a lot using terms like 'No Deal' 'Crashing Out' 'Falling off a cliff edge' and much more. This is an attempt by one side of the discussion to use emotive language rather than debate the subject matter. I reiterate that Leaving the EU with no formal agreement may create some short /medium term difficulties but IMO the potential benefits outweigh this. Our country through it's history had to make decisions that would be potentially bad for some of the population but you have to consider the long game.

 

[Hobbit]

You little devil you...... 😂

Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself...

 

[Slime]

Good news for who?

Those who don't believe in democracy.

 

[Old Skier]

But were they telling lies or were they just exaggerating?

Depends which side of the fence SILH is sitting.

Any answer on the "Never be an EU Army" promise from the remain side SILH.

 

[Hobbit]

The attached is a piece from Sky News, broadcast earlier today. The first couple of minutes suffers from mic problems. After that, up to the 22nd minute, its business leaders who currently trade across the EU and the rest of the world. Specifically, its how goods flow in and out of the UK, the electronic systems in place and the impact, or non-impact, they have at the ports of entry. Its also interesting to hear someone form the Netherlands expressing surprise about the lack of promotion of electronic systems, those systems being in place for over 20 years.

Whatever your views on in or out, its worth listening to how trade of goods currently takes place. And after listening to it, will there really be the 'just in time' problems you've heard from Land Rover et al?

 

[harpo_72]

The attached is a piece from Sky News, broadcast earlier today. The first couple of minutes suffers from mic problems. After that, up to the 22nd minute, its business leaders who currently trade across the EU and the rest of the world. Specifically, its how goods flow in and out of the UK, the electronic systems in place and the impact, or non-impact, they have at the ports of entry. Its also interesting to hear someone form the Netherlands expressing surprise about the lack of promotion of electronic systems, those systems being in place for over 20 years.

Whatever your views on in or out, its worth listening to how trade of goods currently takes place. And after listening to it, will there really be the 'just in time' problems you've heard from Land Rover et al?

None of the major manufacturers can tolerate just in time issues... the electronic system has one chance and failure will not be tolerated.
There are back stop plans in place and it won’t be the big business that will take the brunt. Volume selling vehicles will be made in other sites, supported by EU funding. Low volume prestigious brands or flagship product will probably stay as just in time isn’t an issue, their customers can wait and are prepared to wait. It could also be used to make a product more attractive.. fewer, harder availability etc..

 

[SocketRocket]

None of the major manufacturers can tolerate just in time issues... the electronic system has one chance and failure will not be tolerated.
There are back stop plans in place and it won’t be the big business that will take the brunt. Volume selling vehicles will be made in other sites, supported by EU funding. Low volume prestigious brands or flagship product will probably stay as just in time isn’t an issue, their customers can wait and are prepared to wait. It could also be used to make a product more attractive.. fewer, harder availability etc..

Jit production is only workable in certain processes, you cannot have a product like a motor car production line relying on a days components in the factory and fleets of lorries trundling across Europe with the components required tomorrow. These production lines have local warehouses with considerable stocks of components that are delivered to the production lines as required or Just in time, this means the production facility does not need a large local supply of parts. How could such a production line expect to rely on the next days components being stuck in a traffic jam on the M4 or stopped by French strikers. Think about it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Maybe you're right maybe I am, that's what decision making is about, you take into account your Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats then balance them against each other.. If you are not prepared to take considered risks and forge opportunities but rather wallow in a security blanket that gradually saps your strength and spirit then that's not for me.

You really do dwell on the negative, I would guess you've never ran a business or employed people, never had to make a decision that could either ruin you or become a cash cow.

What could we manufacture? If you need me to answer that for you then you really are lacking in vision. Is it better to import a pair of socks from China and sell for £1 while keeping a person out of work or get them to make the socks and sell them for £2 and keep that person in work.

It’s a bit a company that’s taking a risk though is it - it’s the whole country and people’s livelihoods and lives on the line here. You appear so flippant about something that can harm a lot of the country

What’s all this “wallowing and sapping strength and security stuff” - millions have thrived under the blanket of the EU , companies have flourished , towns have improved.

But all you seem to be doing is harking back to days of “British Industry” which failed because it was poor quality as well as being more expensive

And producing more expensive items from the UK won’t keep people in work. That “import” from China also keeps people in the UK in a job ? And who pays the extra wages to pay for the more expensive British stuff then.

And then there is N Ireland. But I suspect you haven’t got the answers to them and how they deal with the border

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Jit production is only workable in certain processes, you cannot have a product like a motor car production line relying on a days components in the factory and fleets of lorries trundling across Europe with the components required tomorrow. These production lines have local warehouses with considerable stocks of components that are delivered to the production lines as required or Just in time, this means the production facility does not need a large local supply of parts. How could such a production line expect to rely on the next days components being stuck in a traffic jam on the M4 or stopped by French strikers. Think about it.

Here is a comment from someone who works with Mini ( BMW )

Hi Peter, it’s not as simple as just going onto WTO. I’ll give you one example:
BMW own the Mini brand. Mini is based in Cowley. One engine component (camshaft) goes back and forth to the EU four times in production. That movement is seamless and tariff free.
WTO would mean a customs check and charge on each movement.
Think about the end game.

 

[SocketRocket]

Here is a comment from someone who works with Mini ( BMW )

Hi Peter, it’s not as simple as just going onto WTO. I’ll give you one example:
BMW own the Mini brand. Mini is based in Cowley. One engine component (camshaft) goes back and forth to the EU four times in production. That movement is seamless and tariff free.
WTO would mean a customs check and charge on each movement.
Think about the end game.

That comment is not just untrue it's stupid
I speak as a professional Mechanical Engineer and understand a lot about manufacturing. What kind of company would transfer the manufacture of a Camshaft back and forth to the EU four times in production. The complete process from casting to finish machining will be carried out in one location, the process is not rocket science and only an organisation set on adding a great deal of cost would do it that way and these people don't do that.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That comment is not just untrue it's stupid
I speak as a professional Mechanical Engineer and understand a lot about manufacturing. What kind of company would transfer the manufacture of a Camshaft back and forth to the EU four times in production. The complete process from casting to finish machining will be carried out in one location, the process is not rocket science and only an organisation set on adding a great deal of cost would do it that way and these people don't do that.

Actually it is true and I know the guy and he does work for BMW - unless of course you “know” they do it differently or you just have an opinion on how is should happen because it fits in with the situation you want to happen

As has been said by a lot of people - millions of people are affected by the Eu and working within the EU boundaries without restrictions, it is ingrained in many companies, add in any barrier no matter how small is going to cause pain and uplift to somewhere where there will be minimal restrictions- but you will prob dismiss things like that under the banner “project Fear

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I suppose you all know that following Amber Rudd's work assessment for her new ministerial post she was judged to be unfit for work.