bobmac
Major Champion
Just to let you know, I will continue to post where I please.
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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Just to let you know, I will continue to post where I please.
chrisd
Major Champion
I'm not sure that his "respectful" suggestion was actually respectful. I'd also believe that if SILH commands respect he should be willing to give it too ðŸ‘
bobmac
Major Champion
I was always taught that respect has to be earned.
Anyway, I've got better things to do with my time than argue on here....... I'm planning on building a carport.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
The longer this farce drags on, the more determined I am that I want out. The EU is truly an awful organisation.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
A good deal is:
1) We make our own laws
2) We trade freely with the EU and the rest of the world
3) We set our own immigration policy
Not exactly rocket science but the EU are determined to prevent that.
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
Sadly that is a dream deal and never going to happen.
As a leaver at heart but mind says stay, I think the most likely was always no deal, going to be interesting to see what actually happens. Already seeing quite a few clients being affected by the Brexit, and money not being spent in the UK by large companies.......
I think that's the unicorn deal, and point 2 would never happen without major concessions. I would have accepted point 2 being fair trading conditions with the EU. I certainly wouldn't accept the clause on offer, i.e. that our tariffs to the rest of the world are to be no lower than the EU tariff rates to the rest of the world.
D
Deleted member 18121
Guest
To be honest I'm a little surprised that hasn't become more apparent to more people, somehow it still "feels" as though the EU has come out of all this smelling of roses and I for one cannot understand how.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Good point - an assumption on my part, from your description of the 'odd jobs' that you do, that may not have been correct.
Btw. Are you retired from/not primarily in your 'main job' - the CEO one?
Oh! The logic expressed in my post also applies to those nearing retirement or working, by choice, only occasionally too.
Foxholer
Blackballed
If it wasn't obvious originally, then there's little I can add to help you.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
And so - the backstop for NI/EU border control continues to exercise the minds of preening Tories ( thanks to the Daily Mail for that) such as Rees-Mogg - and it is being used as the basis for their opposition to the agreement that Mrs May has negotiated and for trying to get her dumped by the Tory Party.
But riddle me this. I have been told endlessly by such as Rees-Mogg (and various Leave supporters hereabouts) that a solution to the NI/EU border issue already exists; that the border/customs control issue has always simply been a smokescreen for EU to work behind to force a terrible agreement on the UK. The EU claim that a technical or other solution does not currently exist or might not exist by 31st Dec 2020 has just been a tactical pretence.
And so we end up with the agreement and a backstop in place - that has no date on it. And why no date? Because everybody agrees that there cannot be a 'hard' border between NI and the EU - and until a trade deal is finalised that does not require control - or a solution to implement the control that would be required if no such deal was agreed - then the UK must stay in a Customs Union with the EU. TINA.
But why the fuss by the Tory preeners? Because they have been telling us that a technological solution already exists - just that the EU wouldn't accept that fact. ut the EU can now drop that pretence - and so when 31st Dec 2020 arrives the implementation of that solution will be complete. And so the backstop will never be triggered and hence no need for a customs union with the EU for as long as it takes.
But riddle me this. I have been told endlessly by such as Rees-Mogg (and various Leave supporters hereabouts) that a solution to the NI/EU border issue already exists; that the border/customs control issue has always simply been a smokescreen for EU to work behind to force a terrible agreement on the UK. The EU claim that a technical or other solution does not currently exist or might not exist by 31st Dec 2020 has just been a tactical pretence.
And so we end up with the agreement and a backstop in place - that has no date on it. And why no date? Because everybody agrees that there cannot be a 'hard' border between NI and the EU - and until a trade deal is finalised that does not require control - or a solution to implement the control that would be required if no such deal was agreed - then the UK must stay in a Customs Union with the EU. TINA.
But why the fuss by the Tory preeners? Because they have been telling us that a technological solution already exists - just that the EU wouldn't accept that fact. ut the EU can now drop that pretence - and so when 31st Dec 2020 arrives the implementation of that solution will be complete. And so the backstop will never be triggered and hence no need for a customs union with the EU for as long as it takes.
But what have they actually done wrong? For them to give anything in the negotiation is them moving away from their current position. They have been very fair and equitable in most of the deal. Its only in the key areas that they haven't moved very far, or have offered terms that are very onerous. The UK could have said no to those terms, and said no deal.
There was a piece on the BBC News a couple of months back showing good coming into the EU from Russia into Estonia on a train. There were pylons by the side of the track with sensors on them and, I guess, some sort of RFID on the goods coming in. The piece was all about a technical solution already in existence, and being used when goods are coming into the EU. As you've been told, many times, there are technical solutions. Some of us have used those technical solutions, either importing from non-EU, or exporting from the EU BUT, as usual, you just won't accept that.
Why not book a ticket to Estonia and go and see what is there. Maybe you'll believe your own eyes.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Where do I ever show disrespect to a forum member - I truly never wish to do so. I may disagree vehemently with a view expressed - I might think it completely utter rubbish - but that does not mean that I show disrespect to the person expressing it.
I might say that I believe that what the country is doing in leaving the EU is utter madness - complete self-harming folly - but that does not mean that I think those who voted to leave are either mad or foolish.
And if I have ever expressed disrespect to any individual I apologise.
Meanwhile the preeners continue to pretend (to essentially lie to the electorate) that there is a better agreement to be had that could, even now - with 100 days to go, be agreed - if only May were not there. When in fact the truth must surely be that it is May's Deal, No Deal or Remain - and the only way that we will know is by letting the electorate choose.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
You are right Bri - the EU has simply adhered to the rules of the EU - and where they have been able to move they have moved whilst maintaining the rules. And so the EU wanted NI/EU border control down the Irish Sea - that is what they wanted. The simplest solution from their perspective and from the perspective of adherence to the EU rules. But they have compromised to the positions in the agreement.
Our problem in the UK is that if you do not fully understand the EU rules (as I don't) then we do not actually know how far the EU has compromised - maybe not on the rules - but from their optimal and preferred solution to any issue whilst adhering to the rules.
And because May does not seem to have achieved everything that the strongest proponents of Leave much have wished or been promised (see Lancaster House speech) - it might appear that the EU has not compromised - and that is what will be pushed - EU intransigence.
I don't think you've ever shown any disrespect to any individual. You may have bitten back a little sharp occasionally but only under a fair bit of flak coming your way. You have, however, generalised occasionally, basically lumping all Leavers with the same mindset.
I growled at Phil yesterday over his generalisation based on age, and it is those generalisations that cause division.
At the end of the day I'd still have another drink with you, and would love a round of golf. Opinions might differ but they're only bit of our make up as an individual.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
In which case the EU will drop the pretence and a technological solution will be in place for the 31st Dec 2020. Backstop irrelevant. Expressing fears about the backstop and using it to attack May are a red herring.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Careful referring to unicorns Bri - you'll be pulled up...
I expect to see the Unicorns simile in the OED by year end.
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