Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Doon frae Troon]

May making a statement at 5pm, she's late.

 

[ger147]

Then what...? In every interview I have heard today of a Tory MP who has written a letter to the Chief Whip or will vote against the agreement, when asked - what next? Silence or dissembling. That's what you get. Nothing. Because they haven't a clue how to get the UK out of this mess either.

Presumably in the very near future, TM will have to go as PM then it will be time for someone else to have a go.

It's not my job to say what's next, I'm just giving my opinion based on what I've heard/read today, and that is TM's deal has roughly 0% chance of being approved in the HoC's, so a debate about its contents is irrelevant as it's already dead in the water as it will not command a majority in the House.

 

[Old Skier]

As Article 50 days - come 29th March we will be leaving the EU and all it's associated institutions.

What has had to be agreed in respect of the EU/NI border subsequent to us leaving, and for there to be a transition agreement in place, are subsequent to the UK leaving the EU, And at the moment - as the Bill has gone through parliament - the UK will be leaving the EU on 29th March.

What May has agreed does not cancel that Bill and in many if not most aspects fulfils what Leave voters are thought to want out of leaving. because we don't actually and factually know in detail what what was wanted further to leaving.

Rubbish, you know it's rubbish. We may be leaving in name but even in your somewhat blinkered world can you say that we are leaving the EU on 29 March.

 

[Old Skier]

I am sorry but what you posted...

As others have said, a pile-up on the M4 and the whole Honda factory grinds to a halt!! I think not.
And what about the blockades by the French in recent times....Operation Stack on this side of the Channel - they'll have their own version over there....some lorries were stuck for days..
Don't recall hearing about Honda shutting down..

...is all in respect of very short term and temporary disruptions to JiT delivery. What we are talking about with Dover-Calais is not simply few hours or days delay - a 'temporary' disruption that the manufacturers can plan for. We are talking major disruption with the motorway system of the SE England completely clogged up. And that's what the government are trying to plan to mitigate.

During this year operation stack has been implemented several times blocking access all around SE Kent, one operation lasted nearly a week. Are you suggesting that the SE corner of Kent is going to be blocked for over a week with nobody able to get to the docks or, in some cases get to work.

PS: Honda operated successfully along with the rest of the country during his time.

 

[Old Skier]

May making a statement at 5pm, she's late.

Bloody rude, does she not know it's my turn to make dinner.

 

[Hobbit]

Just a question that’s all - I know a lot of people who are being affected by everything that is going on , losing deals , jobs going etc and it’s not getting better. But the people that no longer work won’t see or feel that affect and I suspect it won’t bother them - especially when they blurt out “Leave Means Leave”. There are a lot of people that have their livelihoods resting on potential deals with the EU , I suspect it’s a hell of a lot of people desperate for a deal that means their job is safe.

Fears about jobs etc are always dismissed by people like yourself as “project fear” etc so I suspect you are either don’t work ( so don’t care ) or in a job that doesn’t need a relationship with the EU.

That is a disgraceful statement Phil. I thought a lot better of you than that. I don't work, and I don't live in the UK. BUT I have children that both live and work in the UK. I have friends that both live and work in the UK. And I have ex-colleagues that both live and work in the UK. How my pensions perform and their their transfer value is determined by what happens in the UK.

Your statement is shallow and petty at best.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

That is a disgraceful statement Phil. I thought a lot better of you than that. I don't work, and I don't live in the UK. BUT I have children that both live and work in the UK. I have friends that both live and work in the UK. And I have ex-colleagues that both live and work in the UK. How my pensions perform and their their transfer value is determined by what happens in the UK.

Your statement is shallow and petty at best.

It’s not just about working in the UK though is it - it’s about working with the EU and having deals with the EU - I know people who have lost their jobs because of it , people that have lost their livelihoods because of the work they do with the EU , deals gone and I have heard plenty of time from people and on social media - “ it won’t affect me because I don’t deal with the EU - so I don’t care , Leave means Leave no deal”

It’s not shallow and petty when this mess of a situation has affected peoples ability to work and feed their families.

 

[Hobbit]

It’s not just about working in the UK though is it - it’s about working with the EU and having deals with the EU - I know people who have lost their jobs because of it , people that have lost their livelihoods because of the work they do with the EU , deals gone and I have heard plenty of time from people and on social media - “ it won’t affect me because I don’t deal with the EU - so I don’t care , Leave means Leave no deal”

It’s not shallow and petty when this mess of a situation has affected peoples ability to work and feed their families.

Your comment is shallow and petty. To say that people who no longer work don't care is very poor. I don't doubt for one second that there are plenty of people out there that don't care but to generalise it, as you did, is shallow.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Your comment is shallow and petty. To say that people who no longer work don't care is very poor. I don't doubt for one second that there are plenty of people out there that don't care but to generalise it, as you did, is shallow.

Maybe it is maybe I shouldn’t be so blunt but then the thread is full of shallow poor and petty comments from people who want to leave the EU aimed towards people who want to stay in the EU because it affects their livelihood.

Everything is a complete mess and it’s time to just get on with it - people will have given the authority to sort this stuff out have decided on a deal , it’s a deal that means we leave the EU but still keep valuable ties with them that will help a lot of people

But I’m sick of people blurting out “Leave means Leave” with not one single plan of action for that and quite clearly only care about leaving the EU regardless of the affect it will have on millions in this country

This has been a momumental Balls up from day one when they decided to have a vote and have it 50/50

 

[Crazyface]

Question:-
When they all had the chance to, didn't those people in the HOC ask May directly if she says the deal was everything was asked for (main bits) why then did it say in the document XYZ which proved what she was saying was incorrect. And also those supposidly intelligent political reporters do like wise??? Are they all in on some sort of conspiracy to keep us plebs in the dark. A massive opportunity wasted. I lost count of the number of times the Labour morons asked the same question prompting Mrs May, in eventual exasperation, to say " I refer my friend to the answer I gave earlier"

 

[harpo_72]

I am wondering if we just heard a bubble go pop ... !
Poor old TM she is in an invidious position, irrespective of politics, wouldn’t want to be in her shoes.
Hope the civil servant slapped McVey with the rule book ... and shouted those are the rules!

 

[Old Skier]

Maybe it is maybe I shouldn’t be so blunt but then the thread is full of shallow poor and petty comments from people who want to leave the EU

In the interest of balance are you suggested this was one way traffic.

 

[Foxholer]

The agreement May has reached means that the UK will be leaving the EU. ...

Actually (and unfortunately), I don't believe i does!!!

 

[Foxholer]

Your comment is shallow and petty. To say that people who no longer work don't care is very poor. I don't doubt for one second that there are plenty of people out there that don't care but to generalise it, as you did, is shallow.

Actually, it's a perfectly reasonable argument - and there should be no problem with anyone no longer working having their own 'bias', Read LPP's coment post again and you might see that it was a 'quote' as opposed to an opinion!

 

[SocketRocket]

Maybe it is maybe I shouldn’t be so blunt but then the thread is full of shallow poor and petty comments from people who want to leave the EU aimed towards people who want to stay in the EU because it affects their livelihood.

Everything is a complete mess and it’s time to just get on with it - people will have given the authority to sort this stuff out have decided on a deal , it’s a deal that means we leave the EU but still keep valuable ties with them that will help a lot of people

But I’m sick of people blurting out “Leave means Leave” with not one single plan of action for that and quite clearly only care about leaving the EU regardless of the affect it will have on millions in this country

This has been a momumental Balls up from day one when they decided to have a vote and have it 50/50

your post was shallow poor and petty, you should be ashamed of it and apologise, it smacks of bigotry.

 

[SocketRocket]

Actually, it's a perfectly reasonable argument - and there should be no problem with anyone no longer working having their own 'bias' - as we all likely have!

That would be correct if you wish to pegion hole peoples opinions and bias based on their employment status. Can i assume all unemployed people are lazy.

 

[Foxholer]

That would be correct if you wish to pegion hole peoples opinions and bias based on their employment status. Can i assume all unemployed people are lazy.

I'm not pigeon-hole-ing anyone!

I'm simply allowiing individuals to have their own opinions based on their own circumstances!

Surely that's what democracy is all about! Do you agree?

 

[harpo_72]

Can i assume all unemployed people are lazy.

Of course you can, hey your on a roll ... Offer up some more.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm not pigeon-hole-ing anyone!

I'm simply allowiing individuals to have their own opinions based on their own circumstances!

Surely that's what democracy is all about! Do you agree?

I would agree that democracy allows people to have their own opinions as long as they are acceptable to the thought police. I dont accept that someone suggesting people of certain demographics all have similar opinions is very clever. This is not and was not directed at you but rather your previous defence of it.

 

[Foxholer]

This just has to be untruthful........
As others have said, a pile-up on the M4 and the whole Honda factory grinds to a halt!! I think not.
And what about the blockades by the French in recent times....Operation Stack on this side of the Channel - they'll have their own version over there....some lorries were stuck for days..
Don't recall hearing about Honda shutting down...

But people will believe this garbage.....

Er...It's not garbage! According to the report - there's 2.6 (+1/6) million lorries per year going through Dover = that's over 11,000 per day - probably more like 13.5k/day on a 5/6 day week!

So the Dover access is a huge consideration!!