Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[ColchesterFC]

Good point! And the answers to those two conundrums could easily change depending on the outcome of Brexit

Surely the rake argument will never be resolved. Leavers will always want the rake OUT of the bunker and Remainers will want the rake IN the bunker.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Interesting results from the Channel 4 Brexit poll and programme.

54% of voters would now vote for Remain.
Every region of the UK covered supported Remain...….the Blue/Yellow map now turned completely yellow.
Both Labour and Tory spokesmen looked dumbstruck, Farage lost the plot [again]
Green spoke well and seemed to have nearly all of the studio audience in support.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Interesting results from the Channel 4 Brexit poll and programme.

54% of voters would now vote for Remain.
Every region of the UK covered supported Remain...….the Blue/Yellow map now turned completely yellow.
Both Labour and Tory spokesmen looked dumbstruck, Farage lost the plot [again]
Green spoke well and seemed to have nearly all of the studio audience in support.

https://www.channel4.com/info/press...-vote-to-remain-in-eu-by-majority-of-54-to-46

Results for those who missed the programme.

 

[ger147]

https://www.channel4.com/info/press...-vote-to-remain-in-eu-by-majority-of-54-to-46

Results for those who missed the programme.

Looks pretty similar to all the opinion polls in 2016 before the actual vote, and we know how that turned out...

 

[spongebob59]

Ch 4, well known remain backing station.

 

[woody69]

Ch 4, well known remain backing station.

Are you suggesting that the 'independent' survey is not so independent and C4 are pushing some kind of agenda?

You don't think that the result of the survey is perhaps a reflection now of people's opinions, that may well have changed since the referendum?

 

[Dellboy]

Channel 4 and independent, not a Phrase you often see in the same sentence.

Never mind I’m sure Channel 4 are happy this morning after the EU commission has decided to approve the new funding arrangements for
the independent British television station Channel 4.

 

[spongebob59]

Are you suggesting that the 'independent' survey is not so independent and C4 are pushing some kind of agenda?

You don't think that the result of the survey is perhaps a reflection now of people's opinions, that may well have changed since the referendum?

Are you suggesting that the 'independent' survey is not so independent and C4 are pushing some kind of agenda?

You don't think that the result of the survey is perhaps a reflection now of people's opinions, that may well have changed since the referendum?

No, I'm just saying what I said, ask Jon Snow

 

[jp5]

Interesting poll to see the areas of the country that have most swung to remain being those that would most be affected by a bad deal. Overall numbers still within a few percentage points so as a country we'll be divided on this one way or the other. Can't see that overturning a narrow vote with another narrow vote would do us any good mind!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And Nigel Farage's response (he was on the programme). I paraphrase - 'Well of course that survey result is hardly surprising given all the coverage Remain has been given since the referendum - compared with what the Leave argument has had'

Well yes Nigel - as the complexities and issues associated with Leaving the EU are further detailed and explained; and the impossibility of May being able to deliver what was promised to Leave voters is exposed as the unicorn that it is - yes - we are informed of all of that. And meanwhile the Leave argument can do little more than repeat what they said before the vote - hopes and aspirations built on nothing more than a belief - a belief that many will say is no more than sand...

Nigel Farage is complaining about a media bias in explaining what Brexit will mean - he is in actually complaining about making the electorate more informed - can't have an informed electorate can we...

And just to top off his duplicity and wriggling he moans about a bias in respect of the four politicians on the programme - as if that was somehow an explanation of the survey results...

The man would be an utter joke - if the situation was not so critical - and that makes him simply invidious

BTW - was well not impressed by the evasiveness and weasel words from Labour in the form of Barry Gardiner and the total feebleness of David Gauke for the government. As often in such matters Caroline Lucas was the most coherent and convincing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Interesting poll to see the areas of the country that have most swung to remain being those that would most be affected by a bad deal. Overall numbers still within a few percentage points so as a country we'll be divided on this one way or the other. Can't see that overturning a narrow vote with another narrow vote would do us any good mind!

Yup - massive change in Sunderland - though Farage simply dismisses it on the grounds of too small a sample of the Sunderland electorate to be believed.

Liked the stat that identified over 75 white males from the SE of England as the most likely part of the electorate to still be supporting leave.

 

[woody69]

Yup - massive change in Sunderland - though Farage simply dismisses it on the grounds of too small a sample of the Sunderland electorate to be believed.

Liked the stat that identified over 75 white males from the SE of England as the most likely part of the electorate to still be supporting leave.

Nigel doesn't understand how survey confidence intervals and levels work I'm guessing.

 

[Foxholer]

Nigel doesn't understand how survey confidence intervals and levels work I'm guessing.

I think he probably does!

But any seemingly reasonable reason to reject the results of a 'negative' poll will do - and he probably figures that the vast majority of folk don't 'understand how survey confidence intervals and levels work'!

I was actually very surprised at the result in Sunderland (from memory, the 1st result in), primarily because of the apparent 'significant risk' that Nissan - an enormous contributor to the area's economy - would move to Europe. Perhaps there is now a greater fear that that this would happen, despite messages by both Nissan and he Government that they would stay.

 

[User62651]

Interesting results from the Channel 4 Brexit poll and programme.

Started watching, lasted about 3 minutes before switching over, just couldn't endure the same old arguments and counter arguments. There are upsides and downsides to both leaving and remaining but you wouldn't know that I'm guessing from the show?

I think he probably does!

But any seemingly reasonable reason to reject the results of a 'negative' poll will do - and he probably figures that the vast majority of folk don't 'understand how survey confidence intervals and levels work'!

I was actually very surprised at the result in Sunderland (from memory, the 1st result in), primarily because of the apparent 'significant risk' that Nissan - an enormous contributor to the area's economy - would move to Europe. Perhaps there is now a greater fear that that this would happen, despite messages by both Nissan and he Government that they would stay.

Perhaps it was simpler, Sunderland is a strong labour working class area, referendum came in midst of a period of Cameron/Osbourbe brutal austerity. Maybe the folks of Sunderland just wanted to get rid of Cameron or give him a political 'doing' so voted leave? How else you you explain the change in Brexit views?

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I dont find the results of the "independent" survey surprising at all.

Having spent 2 years being bombarded by all the major media outlets about how the world will implode if we brexit, what other outcome really was to be expected....to be honest I see the results as a "success" for the leavers because it proves that despite the media campaign to change the vote there is still a large proportion that want to leave and haven't been brainwashed over the last 2 years.

Did they mention how their "control" group was chosen? From looking at the stats it seems that less that 40,000 was surveyed?

I tend to think that they could have made up some numbers on the back of a fag packet and they would mean as much as this survey.

 

[spongebob59]

I dont find the results of the "independent" survey surprising at all.

Having spent 2 years being bombarded by all the major media outlets about how the world will implode if we brexit, what other outcome really was to be expected....to be honest I see the results as a "success" for the leavers because it proves that despite the media campaign to change the vote there is still a large proportion that want to leave and haven't been brainwashed over the last 2 years.

Did they mention how their "control" group was chosen? From looking at the stats it seems that less that 40,000 was surveyed?

I tend to think that they could have made up some numbers on the back of a fag packet and they would mean as much as this survey.

I've read it was 20,000, so hardly a large group.
Plenty of polls out there saying the opposite.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've read it was 20,000, so hardly a large group.
Plenty of polls out there saying the opposite.

Plenty? Of that size? Or just wishful thinking.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I do have to laugh at all the pro leave bias claims about Channel 4 from leavers.

Try comparing it to the 'independent' BBC during the Scottish referendum.

 

[drdel]

Its funny that there was a 100% total, in a real vote there are always a significant "undefined"/ non-voters!!!

 

[jp5]

Its funny that there was a 100% total, in a real vote there are always a significant "undefined"/ non-voters!!!

The results were weighted by likeliness to vote.