Mudball
Assistant Pro
You can sense public mood when Business start putting things on their mast.. as seen by the softie southerners on their way to EU controlled city which pays more than 60% of all tax in the UK
Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
- Thread starter drdel
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MegaSteve
Tour Winner
This from the prick #1 who is totally in favour of the EU aside from following its employment laws...
Really encouraging that... NOT!
Should stick with his Rod Stewart lookalike gigs...
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Mudball
Assistant Pro
Did Weatherspoons not put pro-Brexit on their coasters or something?
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Think they did at the time of the referendum...
But, my point is, Charlie Boy is fully in favour of the EU aside from according his employees the protections/benefits afforded to them by Brussels...
Which, for me, makes him totally two faced and #1 PRICK!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Corbyn. A man who has lived his life standing up for his principals who now would jump down on any side of the fence to get a vote.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Let me tell you a little story ave just read on a site I follow on face book. The site is dedicated to trying to cut the billions both Labour and the Torys have taken from our pension scheme. This post was written by the old guy who set up the site.
Quote.
If labour goes back on the democratic will of the people as was shown in a referendum, to leave the EU the single market & the customs union, I will give up on them forever especially after how MacDonald treated me after my meeting with JC of which I heard every single word he said about this association & myself when Jeremy's personal assistant left her phone on while speaking to him concerning our association, they sacked her because of that error on her part. Which says they could go back on any promise made to the miners. End quote.
This Labour lot are first class scum. They are not here for the working class. They do not listen to the people. The only people they listen to are the labour members. This is the sadest part. The working class have supported this shower of crap for decades and have now been abandoned. And yet still people think the sun shines out from dark places. Do not get me wrong. I cannot stand the Tories. But i like others can see quite clearly through the crap that Labour peddle.
Oh dear, the rest of the UK has to doff its cap to London because it pays 60% of the UK's tax. Another skewed post further up the thread showed that geographically most of the UK voted Leave. People from both sides appear to be shouting all sorts of rubbish to support their tenuous arguments.
U
User62651
Guest
Well May does more u-turns than a London cabbie, Corbyn's hardly alone in the vote-seeking politician role.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
while the satire seems to have fallen flat, there was no demand for doffing of the cap. The tax receipts help all across the nation, so gratitude is more than sufficient as austerity would be even more painful without it.
U
User62651
Guest
Therein lies the problem, poor leadership on all sides.
You had me recalling a speech by Uncle Monty (Richard Griffiths RIP) in movie Withnail and I with that quote-
Mudball
Assistant Pro
Oh dear.. Labour now open to support a new vote and not ruling out Remain... did I hear Starmer correctly?? Whatever happened to the theory that middle England that is part of the Red belt voted Leave?? So is Labour out of touch with its voter base or have the labour voters changes their mind or just wanting a different view from Tories?
IanM
Journeyman Pro
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Reminding my learned colleagues about my boring repetition of “no vote against the EU ever succeeding..... “
Wind people up and get it cancelled. Don’t expect the enemies of free democratic states to respect any vote against them,
Feel free to take the mick next Spring if I am proved wrong, but I won’t be.
Wind people up and get it cancelled. Don’t expect the enemies of free democratic states to respect any vote against them,
Feel free to take the mick next Spring if I am proved wrong, but I won’t be.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Have you worked it out yet.
Starmer- Labour will vote against any proposal
Corbyn- We will have to see what is laid on the table
Conference vote - all options are open
Anyone clever enough to work out what Labour views actually are?
Does Corbyn actually realize that the majority of their voters are not party members.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
It is simple.. its called 'sit on the fence' and watch the govt tie themselves in a loop. In many ways, no different from Boris - dont have a solution but ever ready to cast the first stone.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
And, have you worked out the tory boys 'n girls views? Honestly??
BoJo aside I'd say the majority, in these parts, would be happy with a second vote and go with remain...
drdel
Tour Rookie
Corbyn has, if we believe him, told Barnier his 6 conditions. I don't see how Barnier could accept these which I guess is how Labour wants to force an election.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Disappointed to hear my MP - Jeremy Hunt Foreign Secretary - spout such utter rubbish in his speech to the conservative party conference - comparing the EU to Soviet Russia in it's Salzburg stance on the UK's proposals for the re-engagement deal. From my exchanges with Hunt it is evident to me that this is simply leadership challenge posturing that he does not actually believe, posturing directed at those who still believe that there is a good re-engagement deal to be had - and if there isn't one then it will be the EU's fault and the EU will suffer as much if not more than the UK - because that is the message that the Leave fraudsters and charlatans are now pushing.
No longer it seems are they saying that there is a good relationship to be had in the brave new Brexit world - but if we are worse off for up to 50yrs (see Jacob R-M) then that is fine as we are well shot of the nasty and intransigent EU - when in fact we knew exactly that we would end up where we are today if we laid down the red lines that May subsequently laid down. And so here we are - in a complete and utter mess with the government riven from top to bottom and side to side over what to do.
But there is nothing surprising here if you cared to look. And the Telegraph, Sun, mail etc have to rant, because they have nowhere else to go if they are not to have to admit that they were wrong. And likewise Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Cash, Bone, Fox, Davis, Leadsome, Duncan-Smith, Grayling and the rest of that bunch have to rant - as they see all their vacuous promises and complaints about the EU they have made to the electorate over the years and leading up to the referendum exposed as the utter nonsense and lies that they have always been.
No longer it seems are they saying that there is a good relationship to be had in the brave new Brexit world - but if we are worse off for up to 50yrs (see Jacob R-M) then that is fine as we are well shot of the nasty and intransigent EU - when in fact we knew exactly that we would end up where we are today if we laid down the red lines that May subsequently laid down. And so here we are - in a complete and utter mess with the government riven from top to bottom and side to side over what to do.
But there is nothing surprising here if you cared to look. And the Telegraph, Sun, mail etc have to rant, because they have nowhere else to go if they are not to have to admit that they were wrong. And likewise Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Cash, Bone, Fox, Davis, Leadsome, Duncan-Smith, Grayling and the rest of that bunch have to rant - as they see all their vacuous promises and complaints about the EU they have made to the electorate over the years and leading up to the referendum exposed as the utter nonsense and lies that they have always been.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
A couple of questions for you SILH.........
Why should the UK have to accept freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the EU court to get a decent trade deal?
Did Canada and Japan have to accept free movement of people to get their trade deals?
Of course there is a good deal to be had, the question is how far the EU is prepared to go to punish the UK for daring to leave. I travel and work throughout Europe and from recent trips to Germany it seems as though major companies out there are getting more and more exasperated with the stance that Barnier is taking. They are demanding (not asking or suggesting) that a trade deal is done as they don't want their products to become prohibitively expensive if there is no deal. Add 20% to the cost of German cars for example and all of a sudden their competitors products start looking a lot more attractive.
As an aside, I noticed that when the EU were making encouraging noises about the government's Chequers plan you went missing from this thread for several days. Now it's not looking quite so good you return to post your usual negative and one sided drivel.
Why should the UK have to accept freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the EU court to get a decent trade deal?
Did Canada and Japan have to accept free movement of people to get their trade deals?
Of course there is a good deal to be had, the question is how far the EU is prepared to go to punish the UK for daring to leave. I travel and work throughout Europe and from recent trips to Germany it seems as though major companies out there are getting more and more exasperated with the stance that Barnier is taking. They are demanding (not asking or suggesting) that a trade deal is done as they don't want their products to become prohibitively expensive if there is no deal. Add 20% to the cost of German cars for example and all of a sudden their competitors products start looking a lot more attractive.
As an aside, I noticed that when the EU were making encouraging noises about the government's Chequers plan you went missing from this thread for several days. Now it's not looking quite so good you return to post your usual negative and one sided drivel.
drdel
Tour Rookie
I think the core issue is not about the current positions of the UK or the EU but more about what direction we and the EU wish/should to travel.
The EU has become dominated by Germany and France who side with Juncker's vision. As Cameron found, like most UK PMs before him, the UK has never succeeded in getting the EU to be a cohesive group of trading partners. Political centralisation will not help the EU as their members are too different sociologically and economically. This federal tenet upon which the EU progresses and the constraints of the ECB has and will hog tie the individual monetary policies of nations. If the UK remained I'd predict the autonomy of the BoE would become questioned as would our ability to form our own monetary policy for sterling outside the Euro.
The future of the UK tied to this political experiment would IMO be a disaster for the standard of living for UK citizens. The short-term of our political voting system's 4 year cycle is a distinct disadvantage to the long term planning we need at this time.
The EU has become dominated by Germany and France who side with Juncker's vision. As Cameron found, like most UK PMs before him, the UK has never succeeded in getting the EU to be a cohesive group of trading partners. Political centralisation will not help the EU as their members are too different sociologically and economically. This federal tenet upon which the EU progresses and the constraints of the ECB has and will hog tie the individual monetary policies of nations. If the UK remained I'd predict the autonomy of the BoE would become questioned as would our ability to form our own monetary policy for sterling outside the Euro.
The future of the UK tied to this political experiment would IMO be a disaster for the standard of living for UK citizens. The short-term of our political voting system's 4 year cycle is a distinct disadvantage to the long term planning we need at this time.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
This post nails the reality of why we need to extract ourselves from the EU. Another big issue with many leavers is the open imigration policy. This never used to be a problem when member states had similar ecconomies. When many countries with basket case ecconomies were aĺlowed to join it created a massive pull factor to people who could earn wages many times bigger than in their own countries and after a short time help with housing, health treatment and state benefits far superior. We then had the situation of the EU telling us we should change our laws in cases like giving votes to people in prison etc.
Some of these issues are very attractive to some of the newer member states but we can already see how even they are starting to object where EU policy is not going in their best interests. Just look how they are reacting to migration from Africa. With the prospect of other poor countries joining in the future and existing countries becoming net contributors it will only be a matter of time before the dominoes start falling.
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